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Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

nytimes.com

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Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#361

Post by javert »

nkurz wrote: post #347
kragen wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While obviously I don't agree with the comment you're responding to (cf. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20813149 ), I wanted to ask you if there's a way I could have phrased the comment it was responding to to be less inflammatory. I didn't anticipate that it would provoke such responses, and I wonder if there's a way to avoid it other than just silence.

You are asking Dan, but answering from the bleachers: I think it's mostly just the length. If you write a short and direct comment that people are likely to disagree with, you invite short, direct and disagreeable answers. If instead your 'meatier' response to 'psychometry' ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20813149 ) had been part of the original, I think the responses might have been higher quality as well. It…

This might be helpful for me, too. I often make very short comments because I want to be direct and get to the point.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#362

Post by javert »

pinkfoot wrote: post #320
walshemj wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be simplifying it but: A reliving Letter is document that your employer must (effectively) provide so you can resign and work for some one else, they can hold you hostage. Bond in this term refers to "An employment bond contains a clause which requires the employee to serve the employer compulsorily for a specific period of time or else refund the amount specified as bond value." Basically an indentured serva…

> Basically an indentured servant … or a young graduate paying back a university bursary. Not always evil.

I don't think an indentured servant is even evil.

As an American, it makes me think of people who would charge 7(?) years of labor on a farm in exchange for passage to America in the 18th century. Sounds like a great deal to me!

People generally don't enter into agreements unless it's beneficial for both parties.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#363

Post by javert »

ryacko wrote: post #359
jonathankoren wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but someone has to have some self reflection that it is harmful. I emphatically reject that notion, both from the perspective that that regulations and regulatory enforcement are intrinsically harmful, and from the perspective that self reflection of enforcers demoralizes them. Quite the contrary, people self deceive themselves all the time. No one ever the bad guy in their own story. Sure. Maybe someone sometime g…

If no one is the bad guy in their own story, than you are surrounded by children.

Maybe I'm missing your point but... we are?

Many or most adults in the U.S. operate at the level of what we expect of children, but not what we expect of adults.

I only specify the U.S. because it's what I know directly.

(I suspect European adults overall are better socialized to behave in an adult way, but are not necessarily actually any wiser than American adults. Just on average. There is an enormous variation from person to person.)

edit: I feel like this needs an example. I'm not saying American adults are incompetent at their jobs, for example. I'm saying they hold childish beliefs, like believing in Santa Claus, but not that one in particular. In other words, they lack intellectual hygiene. Another good example is what came up earlier in the thread: people rationalizing their bad actions so that they are not bad in their own "story."

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#364

Post by rmilk »

arcturus17 wrote: post #317
paxys wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The indictment alleges that in the months before his departure, Levandowski downloaded from secure Google repositories numerous engineering, manufacturing, and business files related to Google’s custom LiDAR and self-driving car technology. The files downloaded included circuit board schematics, instructions for installing and testing LiDAR, and an internal tracking document. The indictment also alleges that at the…

The old school equivalent would be to rent a U-Haul on your last day at work and fill it with a dozen file drawers full of confidential docs (that you’ve been photocopying for weeks in plain sight) from your boss’ office... Is this how they rolled back in the old days?

Actually in the old days it was being given a backup tape in the parking lot in exchange for an envelope of money.

I’m referring to the Cadence vs Avanti trade secret theft in the early 2000s. This was in the EDA (Electronic Design automation, electrical engineering software) industry. See this article for a very brief review of the 6 years of legal wrangling.

https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Cadence_Design_Systems,_Inc._v...

Bloomberg also has a full article, behind a paywall, that is referenced in the wikivisually.com link.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#365

Post by sushid »

dpark wrote: post #298
amaranth wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant $60m is "nothing" for that crowd due to the insane expenses involved in living like that.

Sure. But that’s an absurd response to the assertion that it’s “enough for any reasonable person for several lifetimes”. Sure, you could potentially burn $60 million on private jet service and an army of personal waitstaff. For that matter you could also literally burn $60 million cash in a fire. But most probably wouldn’t consider these “reasonable” behaviors.

I mean he was rubbing shoulders with SV giants worth tens of billions at the time. He probably felt like he could do better than paltry hundreds of millions.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#366

Post by mjsweet »

hintymad wrote: post #122

Why did reporters keep calling Levandowski an engineer? He's really not, at least not for quite a number of years. Anyway, Levandowski was a lousy leader, and was really detrimental to Uber's ATG. He bloated ATG from fewer than 100 people to more than 2000 within less than a year, without paying the slightest attention to culture. As a result, the number of people grossly exceeded the quantity of work. Political infi…

Can I ask the question, is this the “Bozo Effect” or the “bozo explosion” that Steve Jobs talked about? Bozos hire bozos so they then proliferate within an organisation, wreaking havoc?

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#367

Post by khuey »

ryanmercer wrote: post #343
khuey wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reverse engineering is a) legal if done properly and b) not even possible here since Waymo's cars aren't for sale.

And the examples I gave went to court and, if I'm not mistaken, in both the companies were not allowed to continue to use their reverse engineered tech in their products.

Corona and Handwell did not engage in reverse engineering. They copied BIOS source code that IBM released publicly (but not under a license than permitted them to do that). I'm not familiar with Eagle software.

VTech did their reverse engineering properly and the courts sided with them. You might be thinking of Franklin Computer which directly copied Apple's software and did lose in court.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#368

Post by on_and_off »

minwcnt5 wrote: post #314
on_and_off wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between this, andy rubin, and all the nest stories, the "leadership" at google has demonstrated a willingness to enable tons of borderline behaviors.

The common denominator is Larry Page. He has great technical vision, but it's evident that he is an awful judge of character and a poor manager who was out of touch with what was really going on and unable to exert control over his reports. I was there when Eric Schmidt was CEO and don't recall any management issues. Larry takes over, and one of his first big things that happened was the G+ fiasco. Larry just sat bac…

Not the first time I hear something like this.

It looks like many googlers fondly remember the Eric era.

It is a shame Google does not have better executives, for years it has acted like a headless chicken.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#369

Post by qtplatypus »

dannyw wrote: post #351
qtplatypus wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is also being sued. So at the end it’s going to be more then the $8m fine. This charge resulted from the judge at the civil action saying “If what is being said here is true then it would also be illegal so I’ll refer that aspect to the prosicutirs “

His employment contract included binding arbitration, which is reportedly completed. There are no further civil avenues.

I did a little bit of checking. Alphabet won a $US245 million settlement over this.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#370

Post by magduf »

ZhuanXia wrote: post #239
magduf wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking PCB design files and using them at a competing company absolutely is IP theft. I'm honestly surprised anyone would think they could even get away with this; the old company just has to get their hands on one of the competitor's units and open it up and look at it.

Many of us do not believe IP is a legitimate property right.

Many people think the Earth is flat. What's your point?
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