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Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

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Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

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The easiest way to identify a monopoly is to look at how badly a company can treat its customers and still get away with it. My company has a half dozen stories like this about Google in the last year alone. Know what Google is doing to its AdSense partners on a massive scale? They wait until your site has just under the earnings when they have to write you a check, then they terminate your AdSense account for “polic…

> The easiest way to identify a monopoly is to look at how badly a company can treat its customers... Incorrect. The easiest way to identify a monopoly is to identify the number of competitors in that space. Google has at least one meaningful competitor to Android -- Apple -- so it can't be a monopoly. Anticompetitive behavior would be illegal, except this isn't anticompetitive, since there is a meaningful competitor…

“Number of competitors in that space” is not unrelated to “and still get away with it.” If this (monopolistic) behaviour could be corrected by competition, why hasn’t competition with Apple corrected it?

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#552

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> Both the App Store and Google Play stores I think are basically illegal monopolies. I should be able to install whatever app I want, without having to jailbreak my phone and deal with warranty nonsense from the manufacturer. Just like my computer, which I can also install whatever software I want on it. Is Google Play doing that now? It used to be that you just had to change an option in settings to "allow third-pa…

A developer can install any apk using the adb tool from a command line. Jailbreaking the phone is not required.

ADB/command line is also not required unless you need to do more than simply install an app. You can open an apk directly on an Android device and be prompted to install it (provided you haven't associated apk files to be always opened with an app other than package installer)

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#553

Hey Google! Want to know why your cloud service is trailing behind AWS & Azure? This is why ... When you erode trust in your consumer and developer services, don't expect us to sign up for your enterprise services.

This is why I'm not hosting my new business on GCP.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#554

I ran a website that I first coded when I was 14-15, then kept improving over the years. It was for amateur electronic music producers to upload their tracks and after a few years there were several thousand active users, generating ~$400/month in AdSense. One day a relatively famous DJ tweeted a link to a song on the website, and that day alone generated close to $300, so 19 year old me thought he was about to earn…

Is there really no other way to monetize except through ads? Sure, there needs to be more regulation in this space, I agree with that. But the idea that ads are the best monetization has never sat well with me. I understand that it's convenient because you get money without asking your end users for it. But I've always thought of it as "if it seems too good to be true, then it probably isn't" and stories like yours j…

I wish there was, and I considered charging users but it becomes a lot more complex at least from a technical point of view.

The other big reason for not trying was that the biggest user base was in India, where my website was fairly popular for a number of years. This meant that most of the users didn’t have as much disposable income as average users in western countries.

Ads are annoying, but they are an incredibly easy and effective way of monetizing a popular website really. If they are placed correctly they shouldn’t even impact the ux that much.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#555

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Sure there is, but most people don't bother for a few reasons: -Slapping some ad network's code into your site is comparatively easy, and monetizing almost every other way is hard (i.e. "I just want to create awesome content and get paid for it, I don't want to be my own sales department, too, that's boring") -Even if you do monetize other ways, slapping some ad network's code into your site is, effectively, 'free mo…

You're forgetting a major one: there's a whole gulf of things that people just aren't willing to actually take their wallet out for. People even scoff paying $8/mo to Netflix while spending hours watching it daily. Good luck taking payments for your little project. For all sorts of reasons, too: we have been conditioned to think ads = free, none of your competitors ask for money (they use ads, so they're "free"), the…

This sums it up really well. I could get $400/month easily from thousands of users via ads, by just putting a simple piece of JS on the website.

But getting those users to use a debit/credit card or paypal to give me some money, even if it was less than $1 would’ve been very difficult.

As I explained to the parent commenter, on top of that this website became very popular in India, which made that option even more difficult...

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

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post #496

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...until it's your app that has been removed, your company that is going out of business, and the response from the rest of the technological world is, "Eh, collateral damage. Too bad."

You’re right, some businesses have probably gone under because of a bad wrap in the App Store review. How many billions in revenue would you estimate? The world is very rarely perfect. The proposed “common carrier” cure in this case is orders of magnitude worse than the disease.

I've been reading naval history lately. The thing that strikes me most is that the benefits, such as they are, of war (or in this case, app store review non-support) are collective, but the costs are paid individually.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#557

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I don't know how workable this is in reality. Most software needs some kind of interoperability to be useful. - Network access - Direct hardware access (such as games accessing the GPU) - Sharing data to other software - Consuming data from other software - etc. As we've seen, we wind up needing to turn a bunch of these on for most software, and while it's certainly better than giving them carte blanche over the enti…

> - Network access Most software does not "need" network access, it just ends up being used for telemetry, serving ads, and checking for updates you probably don't need anyway. > Direct hardware access (such as games accessing the GPU) "Direct", meaning they need a context handle and some shared memory to get composited by the OS. Still, I'm honestly not sure why this isn't a solved problem today. Why are GPUs not vi…

I would think that manually granting (or revoking) specific permissions on a per-software basis equals more control, not less!

I agree that users need full control. I also think a few decades of personal computing have shown us that the defaults should be pretty safe and therefore restrictive.

Users should have to jump through a hoop or two (perhaps as simple as `sudo enable-expert-mode` in a terminal, or some such) before being able to shoot themselves in the foot.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#558

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I'd rather have all software sandboxed by default. It's a much better solution than walled gardens or "blessed" packages.

I don't know how workable this is in reality. Most software needs some kind of interoperability to be useful. - Network access - Direct hardware access (such as games accessing the GPU) - Sharing data to other software - Consuming data from other software - etc. As we've seen, we wind up needing to turn a bunch of these on for most software, and while it's certainly better than giving them carte blanche over the enti…

I think that one of the reason's we're behind on this is that major players aren't putting R&D into usable clusters of user managed permissions and tools for both power users and average users to manage and introspect them is precisely because they've found a way to both shirk the responsibility and exploit their users with an App Store.

As a result, all users are imperiled.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#559

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The problem with this is that you'll always have exceptions, and eventually you have enough of them that users become accustomed to blindly hitting "Accept" to any permission dialogs.

If you keep a child out of the kitchen because the stove is hot, you'll protect them burning themselves, but you'll also prevent them from learning how to cook. If people don't get the opportunity to fuck up, you arrest their development. Stupid software users then becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. Users will become dumber than they ever were before, and therefore more and more reliant on software developers to do/…

This is a nice thought, but based on my experience helping non-technical people with malware and related issues, it's rare that they learn from those experiences, and instead delegate to the nearest techy person to help them fix it. So if people are going to act that way in either case, I would selfishly rather the software just prevent them from doing stupid things in the first place, before I get that call for help.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live in your locked-down Disney with the death sentence world. That's fine for you to want it, but don't impose it on me. I want freedom and liberty to do what I want with the devices I own. I want to develop without fear that these two megacorps can shut me down on a whim for developing something against their ideology. The web isn't like that. Windows wasn't like that. Today we live in a Fischer-Pri…

Windows wasn't like that. Yeah, and it was an absolute disaster. Until very recently (Win7, roughly, or perhaps Vista) near every Windows install -- unless it had been locked down by an administrator, or maintained by a power user -- was an absolute cesspool of malware and outright spyware. The average Windows machine was literally unsafe to use. That's fine for you to want it, but don't impose it on me. Essentially…

> What do you think about compromises (like macOS, and Android) where non-blessed software is disabled by default, but can fairly easily be sideloaded?

I think that's exactly what the vast majority of people advocating for sideloading are proposing. At least it's what I'd propose.

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