U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#61

Post by Pimpus » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #18

hartator wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I am all for legalization but it’s not a safe drug. Induced schizophrenia by weed can be a thing if you carry a specific gene.

The association between cannabis and schizophrenia remains, as far as I'm aware, primarily statistical, and other factors like familial history are significantly more predictive. EDIT: That is, I don't think we have sufficient understanding to say whether pot abuse causes schizophrenia, or schizophrenics are more likely to abuse pot. Given what I know of how awful a ride that is, self-medicating that devolves into ab…

Anyone who's taken it should have no problem understanding how easily this drug can create a disturbed state of mind. It has quite powerful psychoactive effects.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#62

Post by hestefisk » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #6

40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

> as a result developed schizophrenia I'm sorry about your brother, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can cannibals lead to psychosis in people who are prone to it genetically, or are people who start experiencing delusions, bipolar and schizo-effective conditions just likely to escape using alcohol and marijuana? The exact cause/effect conditions here are a big unknown.

This is not anecdotal. It’s called Cannabis Induced Psychosis (CIP).

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/substance-use-disorder/cann...

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#63

Post by wysifnwyg » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

bregma wrote: post #41

hartator wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5% of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Do you really think a publication from a place with a URL 'drugabuse.gov' is going to be a reliable source of unbiased information?

Have you checked the math on the statistical analysis?

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#64

Post by Swenrekcah » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

acchow wrote: post #29

dexterdog wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never had a problem getting it in the 80s. Sometimes it was easier to get than booze.

Exactly. Illicit drugs are easier to acquire than legal drugs when you're underage.

Although by the same logic one could say it’s good to have cannabis rather than something worse as the fallback drug for kids that can’t buy alcohol.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#65

Post by hsk823 » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #12

numakerg wrote: post #5

> Edible marijuana takes time to absorb and to produce its effects, increasing the risk of unintentional overdose No citation for this. Do they mean a larger than intended dose or a dose that results in a serious toxic reaction or death? Better source: Median lethal THC dose for a 70kg human estimated to be 4g [0], which is slightly over 1300 full joints (at 3mg per joint) [0]. I won't link them here, but a cursory w…

Is there a listed Median Lethal Dose (LD50) for THC or CBD? It is possible to overdose on nicotine if it's ingested (50mg ~60mg for a 150lbs adult, according to the CDC's website), but I'm not sure if there is such an amount defined for THC ingestion.

LD50 for cannabis is debatable but many put it at close to a gram of pure THC per kilogram of weight, intravenously. To put it in perspective caffeine and aspirin has an LD50 around 200mg/kg.

There's a reason why so many people say no one has overdosed on cannabis. For someone who weighs 65kg, they'd have to ingest approximately 65 grams of 100% pure THC for a 50% chance of dying from it. 99.95% THC crystals sold in dispensarys go for around $90 a gram, so someone who wanted to try to test this theory would be spending around $6k in weed to try to do in one sitting

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#66

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

Pimpus wrote: post #50

djsumdog wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as a result developed schizophrenia I'm sorry about your brother, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can cannibals lead to psychosis in people who are prone to it genetically, or are people who start experiencing delusions, bipolar and schizo-effective conditions just likely to escape using alcohol and marijuana? The exact cause/effect conditions here are a big unknown.

Marijuana is well known for causing psychosis, paranoia, panic, and other disturbed mental states. There's a reason they tell you not to eat the whole brownie - once the bad trip comes on, you're stuck with it and just have to ride it out. It can be quite harrowing. I also don't think marijuana is at all safe to take regularly, just looking at people who do so. It seems to incur actual neurological changes - you even…

> I also don't think marijuana is at all safe to take regularly, just looking at people who do so

I suspect lots of people around you do so without you knowing it; as it remains a federal crime and not protected from employment and other discrimination, many people are discreet about it and the non-discreet are not a representative subset of the using population.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#67

Post by umvi » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #6

40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

> as a result developed schizophrenia I'm sorry about your brother, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can cannibals lead to psychosis in people who are prone to it genetically, or are people who start experiencing delusions, bipolar and schizo-effective conditions just likely to escape using alcohol and marijuana? The exact cause/effect conditions here are a big unknown.

Can we stop with the downplaying when it comes to drugs?

Drugs should be guilty until proven innocent. Comments like these attempt to make them innocent until proven guilty. History has shown that there are very few "safe" recreational drugs.

This attitude is one of the reasons it was so hard for public opinion to change on tobacco usage.

"My mom died of cancer from smoking tobacco"

"Sorry about your mom, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can tobacco lead to cancer in people who are prone to it genetically? Or are people that are genetically prone to cancer drawn to tobacco? Or does it affect everyone? Lots of big unknowns here, so let's play it safe and not jump to any conclusions about the harm tobacco potentially may cause."

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#68

Post by losteric » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

bregma wrote: post #41

hartator wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5% of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Do you really think a publication from a place with a URL 'drugabuse.gov' is going to be a reliable source of unbiased information?

It's a peer reviewed study published in The Journal of Neuroscience.

If you take issue with the study, state why - don't ignorantly reject the results because you think the scientist's employer's name sounds biased.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#69

Post by nostrademons » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

bregma wrote: post #41

hartator wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5% of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Do you really think a publication from a place with a URL 'drugabuse.gov' is going to be a reliable source of unbiased information?

It's a division of the NIH and the article cites a peer-reviewed paper in Biological Psychiatry, so yes, I do think that this is a reliable source of unbiased information. The original study carefully describes its methodology (which is as sound as any neuroscience paper I've read), and was done in London, so you can't argue that the researchers are biased by American government attitudes toward drugs:

http://www.mypsychiatrist.london/sites/default/files/publica...

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#70

Post by hartator » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

bregma wrote: post #41

hartator wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5% of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Do you really think a publication from a place with a URL 'drugabuse.gov' is going to be a reliable source of unbiased information?

If you want to nitpick on the source, this is another source with a full publication:

> Variation at the rs2494732 locus of the AKT1 gene predicted acute psychotic response to cannabis along with dependence on the drug and baseline schizotypal symptoms.

Ref: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4872423/