Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 607 posts

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#491

Post by [deleted] »

olyjohn wrote: post #467
JohnBooty wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows wasn't like that. Yeah, and it was an absolute disaster. Until very recently (Win7, roughly, or perhaps Vista) near every Windows install -- unless it had been locked down by an administrator, or maintained by a power user -- was an absolute cesspool of malware and outright spyware. The average Windows machine was literally unsafe to use. That's fine for you to want it, but don't impose it on me. Essentially…

Windows wasn't unsafe to use, Internet Explorer and Outlook Express were unsafe to use. It had nothing to do with a lack of app stores, and more to do with the fact that ActiveX controls were allowed to run rampant on a machine, and that they could install themselves with a single dialog box that nobody ever paid attention to, and sometimes even bypass that. I mean, even with an App Store, IE would have been pushed h…

[deleted]

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#492

Post by jacobush »

ummonk wrote: post #418
jacobush wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Do you know what those contracts do not say? "Must keep firmware updated with security fixes."

I think the point being made is that they could add that to future contracts.

They could, but they won't, because security is not what is lining Googles coffers.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#493

Post by zaroth »

johneth wrote: post #429
zaroth wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s well established that regulations increase transaction costs and stifle innovation. Take FDA regulations for example. The cost of developing a drug for sale in the USA in orders of magnitude higher due to these regulations. In safety critical systems, we pay this cost because the alternative is that people die. However, even still, the regulatory system itself may also be responsible for many deaths, due to viab…

I think we have a different idea of what these hypothetical regulations would do. I see it as regulations forcing Google and Apple, as platform owners, to not abuse their enormous power over developers on their platforms. Much like common-carrier regulations. I don't see how that sort of regulation would massively increase costs to Google and Apple (who are profiting massively off their platforms anyway!) I also don'…

> I see it as regulations forcing Google and Apple, as platform owners, to not abuse their enormous power over developers on their platforms.

How do you think Apple is “abusing” their power, and what kind of regulation would curtail that? How would compliance with the regulation be monitored and enforced? Would only Apple and Google need follow these regulations, or any software distribution platform, or maybe platforms with a threshold of revenue?

I believe most of what we read about happening to devs on these App Stores relate to automated processes flagging accounts, because it’s not humanly possible to review the quantity of code being shipped through these stores. It’s not abuse to have a imperfect process - to me the term abuse implies the slight was done to some end - with some nefarious purpose.

So when we get into that domain, perhaps it comes down to policies like “App Store subscriptions must be paid for through App Store if they are made in-app and Apple will get its cut”. Some people very strongly think this is “abuse” of their market position. IMO that is their business model and the whole reason they built the entire App Store ecosystem - in order to provide services revenue in the face of dwindling device sales, because the devices are so fast and durable you don’t need a new one every 2 years anymore. IMO forcing Apple to turn off these revenue streams is akin to theft of their IP. As a developer I personally feel like I should be able to offer my own creations on my own terms, and as long as those terms are clearly stated and non-discriminatory the market can take it or leave it.

But if, for example, someone does believe this is a good example of a regulation to curtail an abuse of power by the App Stores — that is an example of a regulation which would cost Apple billions of dollars, and they will certainly attempt to make it up somewhere down the line.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#494

Post by ChrisLomont »

olyjohn wrote: post #467
JohnBooty wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows wasn't like that. Yeah, and it was an absolute disaster. Until very recently (Win7, roughly, or perhaps Vista) near every Windows install -- unless it had been locked down by an administrator, or maintained by a power user -- was an absolute cesspool of malware and outright spyware. The average Windows machine was literally unsafe to use. That's fine for you to want it, but don't impose it on me. Essentially…

Windows wasn't unsafe to use, Internet Explorer and Outlook Express were unsafe to use. It had nothing to do with a lack of app stores, and more to do with the fact that ActiveX controls were allowed to run rampant on a machine, and that they could install themselves with a single dialog box that nobody ever paid attention to, and sometimes even bypass that. I mean, even with an App Store, IE would have been pushed h…

>Windows wasn't unsafe to use, Internet Explorer and Outlook Express were unsafe to use.

Here's [1] over 1000 CVEs in Windows 10 alone, many of quite critical nature and not related to IE or OE.

Here's [2] another 1200+ for Windows 7.

Here's [3] 741 for the "back in the day" Windows XP.

[1] https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/p...

[2] https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/p...

[3] https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/p...

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#495

Post by zaroth »

oblio wrote: post #432
zaroth wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has made over $40 billion from the App Store since it launched, and paid out over $100 billion to developers. The $100/yr developer account fee is an anti-spam measure, not an actually significant revenue source. Apple and Google App Stores combined currently generate almost $100 billion in revenue per year . This is the biggest and best revenue source available on the planet for smaller developers. Easy end-us…

> Easy end-user side loading, and third party app stores is a direct attack on this ecosystem and will damage the livelihoods of developers who will have no way to fight against massive increases in piracy that will result. Windows developers seemed to be doing pretty well, even without an app store...

I don’t know what the historical software sales revenues were for boxed software in the Windows desktop era.

But I am pretty sure the vast majority of applications on the App Store in the $1-$10 range would simply not have been possible to monetize in the Windows XP era.

Remember shareware? What percent of people actually paid for that? You think the market was even 1% the size it is now? CompUSA’s best annual revenue was $2 billion and only a fraction of that was software, and only a fraction of a faction of that was anything but enterprise software and big studio games.

And the market for apps on phones was a fraction of 1% of what we have now from the App Stores.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#496

Post by zaroth »

mcguire wrote: post #442
zaroth wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Google and Apple App Stores generate ~$100 billion in annual revenue combined, and growing at about 25% per year. The App Stores are the greatest software distribution and monetization platforms ever created, second perhaps only to “The Internet” as a whole. Regulating the App Stores as some sort of utility sounds like the perfect way to stifle growth and make it more difficult and expensive to publish on the App…

...until it's your app that has been removed, your company that is going out of business, and the response from the rest of the technological world is, "Eh, collateral damage. Too bad."

You’re right, some businesses have probably gone under because of a bad wrap in the App Store review.

How many billions in revenue would you estimate?

The world is very rarely perfect. The proposed “common carrier” cure in this case is orders of magnitude worse than the disease.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#497

Post by ericmay »

mindslight wrote: post #468
ericmay wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which sounds fine until your mom hears about this cool App Store from her friend on Facebook, downloads a bunch of crap, and winds up at the Apple Store with Apple having to fix damage caused to her phone. I’m a little less sympathetic with the repairability stuff, but when it comes to the App Store, daddy Apple is doing a job that I want them to do, and changes here are not to my benefit and would make me less likel…

> winds up at the Apple Store with Apple having to fix damage What is this nebulous "damage"? If an app escapes the sandbox and totally hoses the operating system, the fix should be basically plugging the phone into a cable at home and waiting say 24 hours to prevent evil maid attacks. If the malicious app manages go further and screw up the "hardware", then that implies a serious security vulnerability and so should…

I'm not sure if you have parents or relatives that call you for iPhone tech support, but I do. Even something like resetting a locked iPad requires a call sometimes. It's crazy.

Now imagine people downloading all sorts of scam apps, having personal data uploaded, ransomware, you name it. And they are going to take that sucker straight to the Apple store if they don't have friends/family to fix it.

Aside from that, I personally view the Apple App Store as a feature and a benefit to me. I don't want another App Store even if it were available.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#498

Post by JohnBooty »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #445
JohnBooty wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows wasn't like that. Yeah, and it was an absolute disaster. Until very recently (Win7, roughly, or perhaps Vista) near every Windows install -- unless it had been locked down by an administrator, or maintained by a power user -- was an absolute cesspool of malware and outright spyware. The average Windows machine was literally unsafe to use. That's fine for you to want it, but don't impose it on me. Essentially…

I'd rather have all software sandboxed by default. It's a much better solution than walled gardens or "blessed" packages.

I don't know how workable this is in reality. Most software needs some kind of interoperability to be useful.

- Network access

- Direct hardware access (such as games accessing the GPU)

- Sharing data to other software

- Consuming data from other software

- etc.

As we've seen, we wind up needing to turn a bunch of these on for most software, and while it's certainly better than giving them carte blanche over the entire system, a handful of these permissions are enough to work some skullduggery.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#499

Post by edoo »

ubermonkey wrote: post #463
edoo wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are cherry picking. It might be more secure from drive by hackers but if any of Apples partners (NSA etc) want in you are carrying a big backdoor that by definition is devoid of security.

That's an "if", while Android is literally sponsored by a company that makes money on consumer surveillance, and apparently has a vibrant malware culture, so who's cherry picking again?

I'm not defending Android. I'm just pointing out the platform you consider more stable and secure is likely only so if you are concerned with certain threat vectors more than others.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#500

Post by Havoc »

samirm wrote: post #385
Havoc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When did thing go so horribly wrong? When every company and their dog decided their content needs an app. Instead of using the nicely standardized thing called http and web browsers. That moved us from http straight to corporate technical fiefdoms with no control.

> nicely standardized thing called http and web browsers hah, good joke.

Artistic license. http is less of a circus than a couple million apps anyway.
Post reply on HN