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3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

bbc.co.uk

51–60 of 142 posts

Re: 3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if you look at it that way, to humans, almost everything except direct experience, is a construct of language. What's the point?

The point is that there’s a continuum in reality. Biological tradition developed around classification of life into categories but life doesn’t come in neat packages.

Just because there is a continuum does not mean specific points along the continuum cannot be identified and tagged as distinct from all other points. There are humans and there are dolphins two different species. It is analogous to the colour spectrum, there is red and there is blue two different colours.

Re: 3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

#52

The concept of species is a construct of language.

Members of the same species can procreate fertile offspring. In some edge cases this definition becomes a little fuzzy, but it is clearly more than just a linguistic construct. A mouse and an elephant won't be able to procreate even if the word "species" didn't exist.

Re: 3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

#53

How do {archaeologists?, paleoanthropologists?} even know where to look for these things? "There's a whole bunch of land, let's dig... [throws dart at map] here."

Geologists have been studying and codifying various layers of rock and the types of fossils within them across the world for centuries. So it’s well established how old the exposed rock layers are in any particular part of the world long before they had any idea how old things are. Then as dating methods have improved we can make correspondences between these rocks and their age. So as mentioned by another commenter, paleontologists can take that knowledge of how old the rocks are, and what environment they were laid down in, and how they were formed, along with our existing knowledge of the age of various species, and their locations, and then find a likely spot with easily accessible layers from the right location and time period and conditions and they might get lucky.

Re: 3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if you look at it that way, to humans, almost everything except direct experience, is a construct of language. What's the point?

The point is that there’s a continuum in reality. Biological tradition developed around classification of life into categories but life doesn’t come in neat packages.

Neat packages of life are called "organisms". We're not all just one big undifferentiated pulsating vat full of chicken flesh.

http://wutheringexpectations.blogspot.com/2012/08/this-is-he...

That’s the one great invention, I think: Chicken Little, the giant pulsing living blobs of meat that feed the planet. Pohl and Kornbluth understand the value of their own idea well enough to know that just talking about Chicken Little is not enough. They have to rig the plot so we meet it. Sensitive eaters, avert your gaze:

He swung open her door. “This is her nest,” he said proudly. I looked and gulped.

It was a great concrete dome, concrete-floored. Chicken Little filled most of it. She was a gray-brown, rubbery hemisphere some fifteen yards in diameter. Dozens of pipes ran into her pulsating flesh. You could see that she was alive.

Herrera said to me: “All day I walk around her. I see a part growing fast, it looks good and tender, I slice.” His two-handed blade screamed again. This time it shaved off an inch-thick Chicken Little steak. (Ch. 9)

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1002

Chicken Little, a huge mass of cultured chicken breast, was kept alive by algae skimmed by nearly-slave labor from multistory towers of ponds surrounded by mirrors to focus the sunlight onto the ponds.

"Scum-skimming wasn't hard to learn. You got up at dawn. You gulped a breakfast sliced not long ago from Chicken Little and washed it down with Coffiest. You put on your coveralls and took the cargo net up to your tier. In blazing noon from sunrise to sunset you walked your acres of shallow tanks crusted with algae. If you walked slowly, every thirty seconds or so you spotted a patch at maturity, bursting with yummy carbohydrates. You skimmed the patch with your skimmer and slung it down the well, where it would be baled, or processed into glucose to feed Chicken Little, who would be sliced and packed to feed people from Baffinland to Little America."

-From The Space Merchants, by Frederik Pohl (w/CM Kornbluth). Published by St. Martin's Press in 1952.

Re: 3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

#55

The concept of species is a construct of language.

Yet if I take a penguin and an aardvark, they just won't breed. Reality must have something to do with it, surely.

Not with that attitude

Re: 3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

#57

How did they determine its age?

> A fossil hominin cranium was discovered in mid-Pliocene deltaic strata in the Godaya Valley of the northwestern Woranso-Mille study area in Ethiopia. Here we show that analyses of chemically correlated volcanic layers and the palaeomagnetic stratigraphy, combined with Bayesian modelling of dated tuffs, yield an age range of 3.804 ± 0.013 to 3.777 ± 0.014 million years old (mean ± 1σ) for the deltaic strata and the fossils that they contain.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1514-7

Re: 3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

#59

How do {archaeologists?, paleoanthropologists?} even know where to look for these things? "There's a whole bunch of land, let's dig... [throws dart at map] here."

My archaeologist friend started getting into flying drones to take photos of an area of land, and then running analysis of of the imagery to pinpoint potential digging spots.

Re: 3.8M-year-old skull of an early ape-like human ancestor discovered in Ethiopia

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so? That still doesn't make an ape my ancestor. Or are you saying that every specie I see is ending up being a human? Or is it only when a specie has been 'a good boy'? I am a software developer, dealing with logic all day. This idea is flawed all over. Because we don't know how and why Earth and the ecosystem were created doesn't mean we have to come up with some theory because we need one. Especially not build upon…

Are you implying that if we don't know all the details of something, then we just don't know it? That is, are you implying that if we don't know all the details about our evolution, then we should just say that we know nothing and ignore all the things we actually do know are very very likely? That would leave you without any empirical sciences, because there has always something we do not know. When Newtonian mechan…

> if we don't know all the details about our evolution, then we should just say that we know nothing and ignore all the things we actually do know are very very likely?

Nothing wrong with studying and figuring out how things work, you should not look at it with an all or nothing attitude. But assuming from the very start that all human species ancestors are some kind of ape is just so ridiculous that it can only sink in when you are properly conditioned(at school) or properly brainwashed. And teaching it to the kids on school is almost criminal IMHO. You want proof, me too, but we don't have it yet. But I promise you it will not be apes, just as we don't fall of the end of the earth.

> In my post I'm assuming acceptance of what is commonly accepted in the theory of evolution. If you don't accept that, there is absolutely no point in continuing this discussion.

Many things that are commonly accepted are wrong, not? I do have a point and there is a general discussion about this you cannot stop fortunately.

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