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Poll: How much do you trust Google?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: How much do you trust Google?

#21

Post by gst »

I trust Google as a company. But as Google is under US jurisdiction it is affected by things like National Security Letter subpoenas (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter). This is a type of subpoena that does not require a probable cause or judicial oversight (meaning that the FBI can issue them without court order) and the recipient is under a gag order prohibited from speaking about them.

In addition, Google seems to also abide to subpoenas issued by other countries, but does not clearly state under what conditions. E.g., is the German government only able to subpoena accounts of German citizens? Or of people who used Gmail in Germany? Or of any Gmail user if there is a probable connection to Germany? And under what conditions does Google adhere to the data retention laws in some European countries?

I acknowledge that there are cases where it is legitimate that government agencies get access to one's mails. But if this is possible without court orders I consider this largely undemocratic. As a consequence, I try to keep as much information as possible on my own server (with a fully encrypted filesystem).

So I:

- Currently use Google for searches, but I have set my browser to delete all cookies on shutdown. I have not Flash installed, so I'm not affected by "Flash-cookies". I also tried out duckduckgo as search engine, but in my opinion the search results are considerably worse than Google's.

- I have some domains using Google Apps that I've moved to Google in the past. But I'm currently in the process to also move the remaining domains (that only relay mails) back to my own server. However, I also acknowledge that this is somewhat futile given that 90% of people I communicate with use Gmail - meaning that all of my mails are stored on Gmail anyway.

Re: Poll: How much do you trust Google?

#22

Post by equark »

jschuur wrote: post #15

Who honestly believes that Google would snoop around in the email accounts of competing businesses? How removed from reality and driven by paranoia do you have to be to think that? I assume, jacquesm, that you were simply putting together scenarios to vote on and weren't necessarily implying this yourself.

Google no, but I think it's a little naive to believe the Chinese aren't trying to do this. They would be incompetent if they didn't try to infiltrate Google, as the wikileaks documents suggest they did. Government backed corporate espionage is pretty common. For instance, just from today:

  French intelligence is looking into a possible Chinese role
  in spying on carmaker Renault, a government source told 
  Reuters on Friday. Three executives, including one of its
  management committee, were suspended on Monday in the case
  suspected of leaking material on the electric vehicle
  program in which Renault and partner Nissan have invested
  billions.

Re: Poll: How much do you trust Google?

#23

Post by jschuur »

equark wrote: post #22
jschuur wrote: post #15

Who honestly believes that Google would snoop around in the email accounts of competing businesses? How removed from reality and driven by paranoia do you have to be to think that? I assume, jacquesm, that you were simply putting together scenarios to vote on and weren't necessarily implying this yourself.

Google no, but I think it's a little naive to believe the Chinese aren't trying to do this. They would be incompetent if they didn't try to infiltrate Google, as the wikileaks documents suggest they did. Government backed corporate espionage is pretty common. For instance, just from today: French intelligence is looking into a possible Chinese role in spying on carmaker Renault, a government source told Reuters on Fr…

If a third party or government wanted to infiltrate the email or other service provider of a business they were interested in, then it doesn't matter if they're Google or another provider. They'd go after whoever has the data.

I would actually trust Google to have more technical expertise to withstand an outright attack than a smaller ISP, and to play hardball with lawyers more if compelled otherwise. And if worst comes to worse and they are forced, I'd trust them to make a stink about it like they did last year with searched in China.

Re: Poll: How much do you trust Google?

#24

Post by jacquesm »

gst wrote: post #21

I trust Google as a company. But as Google is under US jurisdiction it is affected by things like National Security Letter subpoenas (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter ). This is a type of subpoena that does not require a probable cause or judicial oversight (meaning that the FBI can issue them without court order) and the recipient is under a gag order prohibited from speaking about them. In…

I've never linked to an xkcd cartoon before but I think this one is very apt:

http://xkcd.com/538/

Re: Poll: How much do you trust Google?

#25

Post by samic »

I trust them completely. They have proven that their motivation is just for servicing better and better to users and the world. I remember before gmail came, yahoo had a 4MB account without pop3 or imap (still doen't have!) or anything else and with ads in any mails and up any page! Or you know that how heavy traffic would Google Instant bring to servers but google do that just to save users 1-2 seconds!!

Re: Poll: How much do you trust Google?

#26

Post by gst »

jacquesm wrote: post #24
gst wrote: post #21

I trust Google as a company. But as Google is under US jurisdiction it is affected by things like National Security Letter subpoenas (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter ). This is a type of subpoena that does not require a probable cause or judicial oversight (meaning that the FBI can issue them without court order) and the recipient is under a gag order prohibited from speaking about them. In…

I've never linked to an xkcd cartoon before but I think this one is very apt: http://xkcd.com/538/

Yes - I know it :) And I also know the limits of encryption.

But just because there are also vulnerabilities if you're hosting everything on your own server, doesn't mean that you need to surrender your data in advance.

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