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MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

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Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#251

Post by slowmovintarget »

thelittleone wrote: post #221
slowmovintarget wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Touchbar and the kernel panics in BridgeOS that go with it. That's the hardest thing to swallow. Mine does this when I use video conferencing. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2018-macbook-pros-crash...

I found the touch bar a hindrance on my 2017 MBP. Then I read a HN comment [1] recommending Better Touch Tool [2] with GoldenChaos config [3]. I've found it quite useful since. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229123 [2] https://folivora.ai/ [3] https://goldenchaos.net/goldenchaos-btt.html

Do these fix the kernel panic "BAD MAGIC" error that causes the machine to crash and restart? These are kernel panics caused by the BridgeOS, a mini-operating system that drives the TouchBar.

My problem isn't with the usability or usefulness of the TouchBar. My problem is that the mere presence of the TouchBar has created a point of failure that crashes the machine... when I'm not even using that feature!

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#253

Post by chipotle_coyote »

philwelch wrote: post #184
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about if they have a touch bar but also have a hardware escape key? That's really the only thing about the touch bar Mac keyboard layout that I hate. (I don't actually mind the feel of the butterfly keys -- I'm typing on them now -- but I don't love them, either. Although if they kept this key feel, maybe just doubled the travel, and brought the reliability back in line with the older scissor switches, I'd be to…

Remap caps lock.

I've gone back to remapping caps lock as a control key recently, so the two hacks conflict. :) (I know there are ways to remap the caps lock key to be both, depending on whether you tap it or hold it down with another key.)

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#254

Post by asdff »

gonational wrote: post #244

My personal MBP wishlist: * the new keyboard (2015 style or better) * no touchbar (F keys, please) * magsafe (with cables wrapped in something stronger than a tortilla) * battery capacity that maxes out the FAA limit * serious graphics (as an option) * better screen coating that doesn’t flake off or scratch easily * an even darker gray / charcoal color option * finally... no fingerprint reader (they’re useful, but I’…

All great options but the company has moved on from us users who clamor for practical features it seems. I bet if I sharpen the lid of the next mbp I could shave with it at least.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#255

Post by kabdib »

akkartik wrote: post #48
timfrietas wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish this was the top comment. I feel like HN is turning a little too much into an echo chamber dunk fest sometimes.

Cut us some slack, we're all spending _all_ our time on shit keyboards.

I used an Apple "ergo" keyboard in the early 90s. Had several of them, they all failed with dead keys and unintended multiple keystrokes within six months. The more things change . . .

The Microsoft Ergo Keyboard, the first one released in 1995 or so, was well nigh perfect (well, once you remapped capslock to something useful, which you could do in software, or in hardware with a little gumption and some conductive paint). Probably saved my career. Then the quality of Microsoft keyboards went to hell as they cost-reduced their way to mediocrity. The more things change . . .

I use a Kinesis Gaming Keyboard now, and I think it's one of the best ergo keyboards on the market. It's programmable to a reasonable degree, has decent key feel, and I've been pounding on a couple of them pretty hard since they were released 2+ years ago without experiencing any issues. I think Kinesis has a clue, but that doesn't mean they won't change . . .

The Keyboardio keyboard has an interesting design and great build quality, but I'm too damned old to retrain, and it requires significant effort to reach a decent typing rate. I'm not up to it. I'd be very interested in buying a more traditional split keyboard from the Keyboardio team if they ever decide to build one. There are probably 10 people at my smallish company who would buy them, too. Kaia and Jesse, if you're reading this, take my money :-)

The Ultimate Hacking Keyboard is just not quite there. The build quality is excellent and the team put an incredible amount of work into the thing, but the lack of an ESC key just kills me. "Hacking" keyboard . . . but no escape key. I just don't understand. Yes, you can remap keys, but you're going to lose something important to a shift sequence that your fingers are going to stumble on for weeks. (Yes control-[ is ESC but this is not the 1970s and I'm not typing on an ADM3A terminal any more).

One thing I'd love to see is an ergo keyboard that includes pressure and velocity information along with keystrokes. I'd like a warning from the system that I'm typing too hard, for one thing, and I'm sure the information would be useful for other purposes.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#256

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

iamleppert wrote: post #12

I switched to a Thinkpad after I had the horror of using a new Macbook. Running Ubuntu is lovely, so much so that for a developer there is little reason to be using a Macbook anymore. You can get a lot more bang for the buck using a Thinkpad AND have a functional keyboard. Apple should be very worried. Once they loose the developers, users won't be long to follow.

There are four of us at work that use Linux--the other 30 or so all have MacBooks. There are no converts, either you started a Linux person, or you started a Mac person.

My little Linux enclave has some theories about the cognitive effect of all the polish that you find on Apple products, but we can't separate our biasses from good science, especially because there's nobody to ask that knows both worlds.

So I have a question for all of the converts out there: Does switching between MacOS and Linux have any effect on how you think?

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#257

Post by chipotle_coyote »

1123581321 wrote: post #200
tolmasky wrote: post #37

The worst part is that I can tell this keyboard is actually having a detrimental effect on my typing abilities. Since being on these keyboards for years now, I've noticed that my typing speed has slowed, as I spend a significant amount of cognitive energy preparing to fix mistakes. The faster you type, the more annoying it is to go farther back to fix something. I'm not sure how to quantify the focus it steals from t…

Curious if you’ve tested this. I thought the keyboard was slowing down my speed, so I did a lot of wpm testing and was surprised that I was slightly faster. I still feel slower after the tests and have verified it a couple of times. I’m not sure how to account for this phenomenon other than possibly the lower travel feeling like less intense effort.

I did a test recently -- today! -- myself on this, and found that the butterfly keyboard does slow me down a bit compared to my usual rate, which I wouldn't have actually predicted; I'm slightly slower on it in terms of raw keystrokes and also slightly less accurate. But it's not an incredible difference, and there are other keyboards I've used (like the much-hyped Brydge keyboard for the iPad Pro) which had more deleterious effects.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#258

Post by pugworthy »

It's absurd that someone thinks they can buy a BRAND of keyboard and expect it to meet what they want their typing to be. There is a HUGE range of UX factors involved with keyboards - ask anyone who's custom soldered up Cherry MX boards to get what is "just right" for them. There are factors like travel distance, and "clickyness" to consider, not to mention contour of keycaps.

But then ask yourself why Apple doesn't offer different keyboard styles based on typing style.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#259

Post by asdff »

spraak wrote: post #77

I agree that the keyboard is terrible, but I think it's weird how many people just suffer through it and don't do anything about it. I put an external keyboard on top of the built in one (with a custom made plastic plate to block the keys of the built in from getting pressed). I am stuck with the laptop but I'm not going to be stuck with a bad keyboard.

Any cupertino locals hereplease start making appearances in coffee shops with a big fat ugly external keyboard duct taped on top of their macbook.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#260

Post by robjan »

millstone wrote: post #234
tolmasky wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, will they be offering free trade-ins? These are $2000 computers that have a major broken component. Not to mention, the second a computer comes on sale that doesn't have this issue, the resale value of the current MacBooks will be disproportionately affected compared to previous revisions. So a nice double whammy: a miserable experience during its use, and an unusually small resale value afterwards.

To be fair they are offering free keyboard replacement.

And they replace it with a keyboard with the same design flaws. I have replaced mine several times now and am left without a computer for a week every time.
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