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exFAT in the Linux kernel

cloudblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#141

Post by sterlind »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #115
chme wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offering a cloud service to a linux user is like tempting a vegetarian with meat. Linux users often choose Linux because they want to be in control of their data and devices, cloud services are about giving control of that away to companies.

>Linux users often choose Linux because they want to be in control of their data and devices, cloud services are about giving control of that away to companies. You may have been able to get away with that kind of broad generalization a decade ago (actually mo -- that's not true, AWS and Canonical's push to cloud started MORE than a decade ago. Google too. Let's call it 15 years ago), but that is certainly not the ca…

I also work on Azure, hi!

I have mixed feelings about closed-source blobs tainting my kernel. AMD did a terrific job open-sourcing their driver stack. I use Nvidia for deep learning out of necessity but I resent it, as I'm completely locked into X11 because they can't be assed to implement GBM. Nvidia has also gotten a stranglehold over the DL and HPC markets with CUDA, causing a chicken-and-egg problem where OpenCL isn't well supported because none of the cards that require it have serious power, and it's not worth AMD putting lots of money into the HPC market because it's locked into CUDA.

NVidia needs Linux more than Linux needs NVidia (imagine competing on HPC while running Windows-only!) And yet, they contribute nothing to the kernel and stymie efforts towards unified standards like GBM.

it's shades of DirectX all over again. that's the problem with tainting.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#142

Post by pwg »

tambourine_man wrote: post #94
pwg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have one, it is just that few know we do: Universal Disk Format ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Disk_Format ). I can confirm it works on Linux, and works on Windows (at least W10). The wikipedia article indicates it works on newer MacOS'es, but I can't confirm that fact.

I thought it was for optical media only. Yet, it seems there's no way to format to it out of box on macOS and support looks dodgy. I'm not willing to bet my data on an unreliable file system implementation.

> I thought it was for optical media only.

Nope, although it is most commonly used on optical media it is not restricted to only optical media.

From the wikipedia article:

Specifications

The UDF standard defines three file system variations, called "builds". These are:

Plain (Random Read/Write Access). This is the original format supported in all UDF revisions ... Plain build

Introduced in the first version of the standard, this format can be used on any type of disk that allows random read/write access, such as hard disks, DVD+RW and DVD-RAM media. Metadata (up to v2.50) and file data is addressed more or less directly. In writing to such a disk in this format, any physical block on the disk may be chosen for allocation of new or updated files.

Since this is the basic format, practically any operating system or file system driver claiming support for UDF should be able to read this format.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#143

Post by senectus1 »

xxs wrote: post #139
stevenjohns wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would settle for just Skype for Business on Linux. No excuses why it shouldn't be on there... and yet it isn't.

Skype for Business has been replaced by teams which is not much better and pretty much still an awful chat application.

only for the cloud version.

S4B server edition is still in active dev

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#144

Post by dreamcompiler »

nightfly wrote: post #37
pedrocr wrote: post #33

I'll believe Microsoft loves Linux when I can install Microsoft Office in my desktop Linux machine. Everything else is marketing. Edit: to expand, the corporate world runs on Excel/PowerPoint/Outlook. Microsoft milks them on Windows/Office licensing and is very aggressive against organizations that try to do Linux deployments. They're a convicted monopolist that got away easily when at some point the option on the ta…

It's more likely that Microsoft Office will become 100% "cloud" based software.

That's never going to happen. The US government is a huge Microsoft Office customer, and national security-sensitive documents cannot be placed in a cloud that's not completely controlled by the government.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#145

Post by burnte »

ghostpepper wrote: post #51
gregkh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be in the "real" kernel soon, here is a patch I submitted adding it: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190828160817.6250-1-gregkh@li... And yes, this is _much_ better than using a FUSE interface to the filesystem.

For the 99% of people reading who don't know the kernel as well as you (seriously) can you explain why this is the case? Does a userspace filesystem driver lose a lot of performance to context switching, or is there something unique to filesystems that slows them down in user space?

Much faster. Also, FUSE has to be installed by the user, which if it's in the kernel, then it Just Works everywhere. With the spec open and the patent license freely granted, the most common USB flash drive format can now Just Work everywhere.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#146

Post by throwaway_391 »

sjwright wrote: post #137
throwaway_391 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would recommend against using Office 365 web ui for word/excel etc, I'd also recommend avoiding the MacOS Office build for the same reason: They're both buggy as hell, the type of bugs that will make your document render in unintended ways when somebody opens it on the other side. At some point, Word for Mac decided to remove whitespace between words on my resume - I couldn't see them and generally exported to PDF,…

> I didn't hear back from prospective jobs that asked for a word format specifically This almost always means you're speaking to a recruiter who is going to strip your identity from the resume so they can hold it hostage for an agreed commission. This also puts your submission at a disadvantage because you're automatically 10% more expensive than the next guy. If you're submitting your job application, double check t…

Thanks for the tip, I learnt this a long time ago, I've also moved into an industry where dealing with recruiters would probably indicate other issues like lack of ability to research prospective employers, etc.

I'm glad it's becoming more common knowledge though. Recruiters have long been redundant compared to job search websites like seek.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#147

Post by slovenlyrobot »

ghostpepper wrote: post #51
gregkh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be in the "real" kernel soon, here is a patch I submitted adding it: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190828160817.6250-1-gregkh@li... And yes, this is _much_ better than using a FUSE interface to the filesystem.

For the 99% of people reading who don't know the kernel as well as you (seriously) can you explain why this is the case? Does a userspace filesystem driver lose a lot of performance to context switching, or is there something unique to filesystems that slows them down in user space?

For copying photos off an SD card you're unlikely to notice any difference on any machine made in the past 10 years, except maybe the fans coming on, but try it on a Raspberry Pi class machine, or doing any kind of random IO and oh boy..

The Spectre/Meltdown situation must have made FUSE much, much worse than it was already. I wonder if anyone did any benchmarks for that

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#148

Post by a012 »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #144
nightfly wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more likely that Microsoft Office will become 100% "cloud" based software.

That's never going to happen. The US government is a huge Microsoft Office customer, and national security-sensitive documents cannot be placed in a cloud that's not completely controlled by the government.

Sounds like they'd build a Gov-Office365 cloud if there's a deal just like AWS Govcloud.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#150

Post by cheez »

throwaway_391 wrote: post #146
sjwright wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't hear back from prospective jobs that asked for a word format specifically This almost always means you're speaking to a recruiter who is going to strip your identity from the resume so they can hold it hostage for an agreed commission. This also puts your submission at a disadvantage because you're automatically 10% more expensive than the next guy. If you're submitting your job application, double check t…

Thanks for the tip, I learnt this a long time ago, I've also moved into an industry where dealing with recruiters would probably indicate other issues like lack of ability to research prospective employers, etc. I'm glad it's becoming more common knowledge though. Recruiters have long been redundant compared to job search websites like seek.

A good one though, very much worth it.
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