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exFAT in the Linux kernel

cloudblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#81

Post by yarrel »

jaboutboul wrote: post #71
mda wrote: post #64

So after abusing this bullshit for more than a decade to bully companies. How gracious and generous of them. Oh btw, Satya is the CEO for 5 years.

Stop shitting on them. We won the war. They’re mending their ways. It takes a long time to right such a large ship with levels upon levels of bureaucratic bullshit that’s been caked on for decades. It’s a WIP and they just granted a patent license to the OIN for fuck’s sake. Even 10 years ago this would have sounded like science fiction.

No, we are losing the war.

Open Source is not an impediment to Microsoft's attacks on users' freedom.

You can get a job on LinkedIn to write code on GitHub that runs on Windows and talks to a server deployed to Azure with a single click from within the README.md .

In that ecosystem, permissively licensed Open Source software just helps Microsoft exploit you.

Which is why Microsoft unironically love Open Source and are very happy to see paid and unpaid shills shout that from the rooftops.

Dumping soon-to-expire patents to get goodwill from people they need to encourage into or prevent leaving that ecosystem is a strategic move that is designed to make sure you don't escape in the long term.

Pointing this out isn't shitting on the poor, defenceless corporation.

It's just not being fooled by their attempts to fleshmask Open Source.

They still hate Free Software.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#82

Post by traverseda »

jaboutboul wrote: post #71
mda wrote: post #64

So after abusing this bullshit for more than a decade to bully companies. How gracious and generous of them. Oh btw, Satya is the CEO for 5 years.

Stop shitting on them. We won the war. They’re mending their ways. It takes a long time to right such a large ship with levels upon levels of bureaucratic bullshit that’s been caked on for decades. It’s a WIP and they just granted a patent license to the OIN for fuck’s sake. Even 10 years ago this would have sounded like science fiction.

The WSL looks a lot like the embrace step of an embrace-extend-extinguish doctrine. I'll believe them more when I can write user-facing apps against their posix subsystem instead of requiring people to jump through many many hoops to actually install it.

Right now it just looks like something they were forced into doing because they were losing on the devtools market.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#84

Post by bluedino »

bdcravens wrote: post #73
pedrocr wrote: post #33

I'll believe Microsoft loves Linux when I can install Microsoft Office in my desktop Linux machine. Everything else is marketing. Edit: to expand, the corporate world runs on Excel/PowerPoint/Outlook. Microsoft milks them on Windows/Office licensing and is very aggressive against organizations that try to do Linux deployments. They're a convicted monopolist that got away easily when at some point the option on the ta…

Pretty sure porting SQL Server to Linux was more than marketing.

Run SQL server on more cloud providers that way

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#85

Post by mises »

fooker wrote: post #11
garaetjjte wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FUSE is very slow compared to kernel module.

Citation needed.

Doing things in-kernel is almost always faster. No dealing with complicated context-switching, moving memory back-and-forth, etc. I can't necessarily provide a formal, data-backed citation, but it's pretty well understood.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#86

Post by rvp-x »

gregkh wrote: post #20
hnarn wrote: post #3

I don't mean for this question to sound inflammatory but I can't help but think: why does this matter? You can already use exFAT on Linux via FUSE, and as pointed out by VentureBeat: > To be clear, Microsoft isn’t open-sourcing exFAT — but it is making sure anyone building with Linux can use it. 'It’s important to us that the Linux community can make use of exFAT included in the Linux kernel with confidence.' exFAT i…

It will be in the "real" kernel soon, here is a patch I submitted adding it: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190828160817.6250-1-gregkh@li... And yes, this is _much_ better than using a FUSE interface to the filesystem.

better because you can be sued for using the FUSE interface?

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#87

Post by mgalgs »

ghostpepper wrote: post #51
gregkh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be in the "real" kernel soon, here is a patch I submitted adding it: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190828160817.6250-1-gregkh@li... And yes, this is _much_ better than using a FUSE interface to the filesystem.

For the 99% of people reading who don't know the kernel as well as you (seriously) can you explain why this is the case? Does a userspace filesystem driver lose a lot of performance to context switching, or is there something unique to filesystems that slows them down in user space?

It also removes the requirement of distros packaging it up and users installing and configuring it. Is it's in the kernel it just works out of the box everywhere.

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#88

Post by rzzzt »

traverseda wrote: post #82
jaboutboul wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop shitting on them. We won the war. They’re mending their ways. It takes a long time to right such a large ship with levels upon levels of bureaucratic bullshit that’s been caked on for decades. It’s a WIP and they just granted a patent license to the OIN for fuck’s sake. Even 10 years ago this would have sounded like science fiction.

The WSL looks a lot like the embrace step of an embrace-extend-extinguish doctrine. I'll believe them more when I can write user-facing apps against their posix subsystem instead of requiring people to jump through many many hoops to actually install it. Right now it just looks like something they were forced into doing because they were losing on the devtools market.

WSL 2 foregoes the system call translation approach in favor of virtualization, you get a Linux kernel: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/announcing-wsl-2/

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#89

Post by mdolan1 »

derefr wrote: post #57
Conan_Kudo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The OIN promise only applies to Linux-based systems.

What defines a "Linux-based system"? Does Android count? Would VMWare's VSphere ESXi hypervisor count? Would a unikernel running on a pared-down Linux rump-kernel (if such a thing were made) count?

OIN works with the Linux kernel community to define a "Linux System Definition" that has tables of packages and functionality covered. New functionality is added every year. It does not include proprietary software or components.

https://www.openinventionnetwork.com/joining-oin/linux-syste...

Re: exFAT in the Linux kernel

#90

Post by Scramblejams »

swiley wrote: post #52
elipsey wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, dumb question. :) I guess I never noticed a problem because either I mostly use ext3/4, or I am so used to using legally dubious drivers that I forgot they were there. I mean, who ever gives you a FAT formatted disk? I don't have floppy drive anyway :p

If you ever interact with people running Windows (or even OSX) all of their thumbdrives will be formatted with FAT unless they recently used it make a Linux boot disk after installing a later version of windows 10 that has extx support and didn't notice. If OSX and EFI had out of the box support for Linux filesystems we could at least stop using FAT on pendrives. I personally will look forward to that.

Later versions of Win10 have ext* support?
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