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Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

bighospitality.co.uk

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Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#211

Post by okmokmz »

coldtea wrote: post #40
ptah wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the toll of eating meat on environment is far greater than your concerns over your feelings. choose the lesser evil

Eating meat is better for the environment in the long run. If human population drops to zero due to climate change (which meat consumption contributes to), then the environment will be left alone and do great on its own! It wont even take more than 1-2 millennia for recovery, which is nothing in geological terms! Compared to that eating vegan is just a feel-good half-measure.

Your argument is that meat is better for the environment because it will cause humans to go extinct due to global warming so the planet can recover? That's absurd

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#212

Post by taffer »

yters wrote: post #204
taffer wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if not, does that mean we should ban contraceptives?

Not getting the connection here. I don't think contraceptives are used to prevent the existence of a child living a life of suffering. They seem most often used to avoid inconvenience on the side of the potential parents.

One could argue that billions of children have no chance to exist because of contraceptives, just as you argue that billions of animals have no chance to exist if we stopped breeding them.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#213

Post by redthrow »

criddell wrote: post #57
mytailorisrich wrote: post #45

Vegan and vegetarian are absolute terms. The only meaning of "semi-vegetarian" or "semi-vegan" is that you're not either. "Semi-vegan" is a particularly nonsensical term.

There's no reason for them to be absolute, is there? If I eat one non-vegan meal every 20 meals, then I think it's reasonable to say my diet is 95% vegan.

Cambridge physicist David McKay talked about the environmental impact of eating vegetarian 6 days out of 7.

http://www.withouthotair.com/c29/page_229.shtml

There's also the word "reducetarian":

https://reducetarian.org/

Using percentage seems perfectly rational.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#214

Post by okmokmz »

zeveb wrote: post #170
nicoburns wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is just not practical for me to go full-veg, where I live I would need to cook one hour a day for it, Why does eating meat mean you can cook less?

Meat is remarkably easy to cook: apply heat to meat, done. Vegetables take preparation, require more-complex treatment, need to be managed well (I have no problem eating a quick meal of just a steak or chicken breast; I really would hate eating a quick meal of only carrots or just onions). Meat's convenient in a way that vegetables aren't.

>Vegetables take preparation, require more-complex treatment, need to be managed well

Are you treating your vegetables like wagyu beef and giving them massages or something? If not, aside from a quick wash, cooking vegetables is no more difficult than cooking meat. Sautee them, bake them, pan fry, deep fry, air fry, broil, steam, sous vide, etc...

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#215

Post by saagarjha »

_bfhp wrote: post #123
Iv wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me that's a mix of ethical and environmental concerns. I agree that there is a point in the belief that it is unethical to kill animals. That's not the most unethical thing that is happening in the world, there are a lot of things to argue about, but in general, I agree that in an ideal world, we should not do that. The environmental concerns, I only buy half-heartedly. I don't really believe that land-owners wil…

I find the ethical-philosophical side of it interesting. In the philosophy of ethics, thought experiments can be helpful (or puzzling), like the trolley problem or the Categorical Imperative. So: Imagine if a wizard finished casting a very complicated and resource-intensive spell and the result is that every living cow, pig, chicken and turkey in the meat industry were replaced with a clone of a dog you've met. In th…

I'm not sure your thought experiment is all that useful, because there are many people who feel that livestock are fundamentally different from their pets and your example is similar to "What if the wizard instead replaced every plant with a human? Is it unethical to eat plants then?"

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#216

Post by taffer »

jonfw wrote: post #207
taffer wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question really comes down to whether or not you consider the opportunity to experience life, even a particularly difficult life, as a blessing. This seems to be an extreme pro-life point of view. You could ask exactly the same question about contraceptives.

Just because I don't think it's unethical to produce life in that circumstance, doesn't mean that I think it's your ethical imperative to produce life. Things don't go immediately from unethical to a moral imperative, there is a substantial gap that needs to be crossed.

So why do we inseminate animals artificially when there is no ethical imperative to produce life? And if you think life is so valuable by nature, why do we kill them then?

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#217

Post by okmokmz »

jbob2000 wrote: post #5
sniuff wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be vegan to eat vegan food.

If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food? If you call anything that isn't carnivore food as "vegan" food, then you're labelling like 90% of our food as "vegan". That's obviously ridiculous, so I think it's more accurate to call food "vegan" when it's being eaten by someone who is respecting vegan principles. What I mean to say is that I think "vegan food" is defined by the eater, not the makeup of the food. Edit: I…

>If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food?

Unless that apple is an animal byproduct, yes, technically it is vegan (as are all other fruits and vegetables). Realistically though, no one calls single pieces of fruits and vegetables vegan, it's more commonly used to refer to dishes

>I think it's more accurate to call food "vegan" when it's being eaten by someone who is respecting vegan principles.

So if I order and eat Thai food it is American food because I'm American, but if I was Thai it would be Thai food?

>What I mean to say is that I think "vegan food" is defined by the eater, not the makeup of the food.

By definition, it is defined by the makeup of the food

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#218

Post by yters »

taffer wrote: post #212
yters wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not getting the connection here. I don't think contraceptives are used to prevent the existence of a child living a life of suffering. They seem most often used to avoid inconvenience on the side of the potential parents.

One could argue that billions of children have no chance to exist because of contraceptives, just as you argue that billions of animals have no chance to exist if we stopped breeding them.

Oh I see, if existence is worthwhile, even in the face of suffering, then contraceptives are preventing something worthwhile. Yes, the logic applies here too.

And, it raises an interesting question about the moral gravity of preventing existence.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#219

Post by Japhy_Ryder »

SomeOtherThrow wrote: post #97
schnevets wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it's less about new products and more about people's tastes. People are eating very different things now because of new popularity in some cuisines (Indian, Thai, and Mexican come to mind) and the popularity of "superfoods" (Avocado, Acai berry... ever notice there are never any animal-based superfoods?).

> ever notice there are never any animal-based superfoods? This must be a marketing gimmick; eating animals is very nutritious—it's just not sufficient. However, this is the same as Avacado/acai berry/whatever. I have heard milk referred to as a superfood quite a bit.

> eating animals is very nutritious—it's just not sufficient.

No. It's not.

I like Dr. Fuhrman's equation: H=N/C. This equation expresses the concept that your health (H) is predicted by your nutrient intake (N) divided by your calorie intake (C). There's not a lot of nutrients in meat (all you get really is protein and iron), whereas in vegetables/fruits you get a whole vast assortment of proteins, vitamins, fiber, phytochemicals, antioxidants, etc.

Meat also has the problem of being a carcinogen, per the WHO [0].

> I have heard milk referred to as a superfood quite a bit.

Nope. It's not.

Milk has a ton of sugar, lactose is not well-tolerated by something like 80% of the population, and the proteins in milk are potentially carcinogenic. [1] Anyway, and that's just the nutrition angle - not even getting into the horrific ethics problems and environmental problems. We need to move away from meat. We can do better.

0. https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

1. https://nutritionstudies.org/provocations-casein-carcinogen-...

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#220

Post by okmokmz »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #29
jbob2000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I eat an apple, am I eating vegan food? If you call anything that isn't carnivore food as "vegan" food, then you're labelling like 90% of our food as "vegan". That's obviously ridiculous, so I think it's more accurate to call food "vegan" when it's being eaten by someone who is respecting vegan principles. What I mean to say is that I think "vegan food" is defined by the eater, not the makeup of the food. Edit: I…

To me, 'vegan food' is a dish that would normally contain animal products and has been contrived to remove them.

That doesn't make sense. A huge amount of vegan dishes have never been made with animal products and were never designed to be made with animal products
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