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Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

businessweek.com

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Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#41

Post by waterlesscloud »

aamar wrote: post #40
waterlesscloud wrote: post #13

Once this exists, it will just be a matter of time until it becomes mandatory. This is a guaranteed fact.

The US Postal Service has existed for over 200 years, and at no point has it become mandatory. We could easily provide half a dozen other major government initiatives which intersect with commercial activity and do not seem remotely on track to mandatory usage. What makes this particular initiative different? If the postal service were created today, would you also suspect that it would become mandatory in a matter o…

The postal service isn't as powerful a tool/threat to the political order as the internet.

Edit - And furthermore, it's a govt issued id to track all your online transactions. This is tax revenue waiting to happen.

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#42

Post by Artifex »

aamar wrote: post #40
waterlesscloud wrote: post #13

Once this exists, it will just be a matter of time until it becomes mandatory. This is a guaranteed fact.

The US Postal Service has existed for over 200 years, and at no point has it become mandatory. We could easily provide half a dozen other major government initiatives which intersect with commercial activity and do not seem remotely on track to mandatory usage. What makes this particular initiative different? If the postal service were created today, would you also suspect that it would become mandatory in a matter o…

Yes, but there also used to be competing post offices that were so profitable and efficient that they were able to offer three-cent stamps.

Read about it here: http://www.lysanderspooner.org/STAMP3.htm

Spooner's post office was so good that no one was really using the USPS any more. He was literally running them out of business.

That is, until Congress came in and said that what he was doing was illegal. Since then, there have been no alternative post offices.

Businesses like UPS and FedEx survive because of a loophole in the law that basically allows for parcel, but not post, shipping: http://mises.org/daily/3646

That said, they recently had a big regulatory battle between UPS and FedEx. I forget the specifics, but one business was being classified differently, and thus incurring higher operating costs than the other, simply because it was classified differently... In other words - punitive tax legislation. I forget exactly what happened there, and can't find a link at the moment buuuut:

The point is this: Your example of the post office is fundamentally flawed because it doesn't take into account that the post office is protected from market forces by legislation and thus, force.

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#43

Post by evilduck »

rorrr wrote: post #6
wmf wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans just don't trust the government; that's why so few people have driver's licenses. Oh wait.

You make no sense. Driver's licenses are required , if you want to drive any car.

False. Drivers licenses are only required if you want to drive on public roads. If you have a lot of property with private roads (farms, quarries, etc), you're free to drive unlicensed. Hell, you don't even have to get a license plate for your car if you never put it on a public road (although you'll probably have to register it with the state for property tax reasons).

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#44

Post by [deleted] »

aamar wrote: post #40
waterlesscloud wrote: post #13

Once this exists, it will just be a matter of time until it becomes mandatory. This is a guaranteed fact.

The US Postal Service has existed for over 200 years, and at no point has it become mandatory. We could easily provide half a dozen other major government initiatives which intersect with commercial activity and do not seem remotely on track to mandatory usage. What makes this particular initiative different? If the postal service were created today, would you also suspect that it would become mandatory in a matter o…

[deleted]

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#45

Post by OstiaAntica »

jf271 wrote: post #28
noelchurchill wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a government drivers license so I can drive on government roads. I don't need a government license to get online and check my email, thank you.

If you live in the USA you drivers license is issued by the state you live in. There is no USA national drivers license. Don't confuse state's rights with Federal Government rights.

American federalism is under siege. There is, in fact, a plan for a national driver's license called REAL ID, and the states are resisting it.

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#46

Post by nickpinkston »

javert wrote: post #32
nickpinkston wrote: post #17

Wait... this doesn't add up for me: "[This will] limit fraud and streamline online transactions, leading to a surge in Web commerce" - Is this really that big of a factor in constraining online retail, or is there a greater chance of it imposing stupid rules. Who's behind this? "Verizon Communications Inc., Google Inc., PayPal Inc., Symantec Corp. and AT&T" - Oh yea, this sounds perfectly benevolent... But who's over…

but it seems like where the companies (incl. GOOG) are trying to take net neutrality - into a controllable space with gov't teeth... This is why I'm opposed to net neutrality. Net neutrality has always been about "a controllable space with gov't teeth." Net "neutrality" is a contradiction in terms because it requires the government and corporate cronies to make it work, and the government and corporate cronies are no…

Yea, it's hard to say. Idealistically, I'm against NN on those grounds, but pragmatically, I tend to think some type of net neutrality may be able to prevent the internet from going the way of cable TV.

To put it in utilitarian terms, I'd say the net benefit of NN > than the losses of possible stifled tech innovation and new law for corporatism - the latter already bought by them anyway.

In the end - I'd love to have something like mandatory bulk-rate sales of the infrastructure rights, with a co-op managing a large % of capacity, for any company with X% of end-user customers (or similar measure).

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#47

Post by protomyth »

Artifex wrote: post #42
aamar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Postal Service has existed for over 200 years, and at no point has it become mandatory. We could easily provide half a dozen other major government initiatives which intersect with commercial activity and do not seem remotely on track to mandatory usage. What makes this particular initiative different? If the postal service were created today, would you also suspect that it would become mandatory in a matter o…

Yes, but there also used to be competing post offices that were so profitable and efficient that they were able to offer three-cent stamps. Read about it here: http://www.lysanderspooner.org/STAMP3.htm Spooner's post office was so good that no one was really using the USPS any more. He was literally running them out of business. That is, until Congress came in and said that what he was doing was illegal. Since then,…

The classification difference means That UPS is union and FedEx is not. UPS is not as profitable and is lobbying to get FedEx reclassified.

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#48

Post by protomyth »

gabrielroth wrote: post #35
waterlesscloud wrote: post #13

Once this exists, it will just be a matter of time until it becomes mandatory. This is a guaranteed fact.

I want the text of that guarantee. What do I get if it doesn't become mandatory? And by when will it become mandatory?

Like the history of seat belt laws in the US.

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#49

Post by protomyth »

wmf wrote: post #33
recampbell wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the federal government's involvement necessary? We have a (mostly) workable PKI system for SSL certificates. Why does a consumer-focused PKI require government coordination? I think the lack of a widely deployed PKI for authenticating consumer's identities is an indicator that a novel approach is required, but what can the federal government do that an independent (perhaps multi-national) organization could no…

You've gotten to the real issues here. If the problem is lack of industry consensus (i.e. N standards instead of one), maybe the government can bully the industry into picking one .

I'm really not sure we are at the point where we should be picking. We are still very early and e-commerce seems to be doing fine without it.

Re: Internet Identity System Said Readied by Obama Administration

#50

Post by aamar »

Artifex wrote: post #42
aamar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Postal Service has existed for over 200 years, and at no point has it become mandatory. We could easily provide half a dozen other major government initiatives which intersect with commercial activity and do not seem remotely on track to mandatory usage. What makes this particular initiative different? If the postal service were created today, would you also suspect that it would become mandatory in a matter o…

Yes, but there also used to be competing post offices that were so profitable and efficient that they were able to offer three-cent stamps. Read about it here: http://www.lysanderspooner.org/STAMP3.htm Spooner's post office was so good that no one was really using the USPS any more. He was literally running them out of business. That is, until Congress came in and said that what he was doing was illegal. Since then,…

Well, on the one hand, a legally-protected monopoly is not the same thing as mandatory. Anyway, UPS/Fedex/DHL may be operating under a loophole, but the loophole exists: it's easy to send a sheet of paper through services like those.

The kind of regulatory problems ("classified differently") you describe are unfortunate, but those affect all major industries and are not specifically relevant to whether using the postal service is being protected. In other words, either UPS or FedEx having regulatory advantages doesn't mean that the overall tax/regulation regime is constructed so as to give the Postal Service a market advantage.

edit: see protomyth's comment; the Postal Service is unionized, so if anything FedEx seems to have the market advantage here.

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