I'm just truly lost for words, hope he finds peace.
RIP Bill Zeller
111–120 of 146 posts
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#112A note of caution: If you choose to read the actual suicide note as I did, be prepared for a rather intense emotional trip. I don't mean to say that to dissuade anyone from reading it, but just that... I was not expecting what I ended up reading and it really made me sit back and, I dunno, just be sad for awhile. Such a shame.
I for one, thought that it was quite positive thing and I respect his decision to take his own life. It was very well thought-out suicide note; I think most people are quite baffled by it because of the degree of author's rational explanations, extreme honesty and empathy for others in spite of his own pains. Also, he unintentionally perhaps shed light on programming which a lot of us could relate to, At times growin…
I didn't think it was rational or positive at all. He suffers constant feelings of helplessness and inadequacy that permeate his every word. He is irrationally fearful and mistrustful. He's a misanthorpe--though I bet he wouldn't call himself that, because he'd rather blame himself than blame humanity, such that he would rather go to the grave than risk therapy... and his utterly twisted view of his fellow man led him to hide his problems until he dumped it all out in a way such that he wouldn't have to deal with the consequences he so feared, because he'd be dead.
The real burn is that he not only didn't want to put his rapist in jail, but was terrified of any steps that might remotely end up in that possibility. It's certainly very sad, but it's also, not to mince words, fucking cowardice that might even lead to seeing this tragedy repeated.
I don't want to be harsh, but we cannot cannot cannot talk about this stuff as positive or rational at all. Because it not only isn't, but these patterns of thought are extraordinarily dangerous to someone who might think they are rational.
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#113Many thoughts that flashed through my mind as I read the suicide note, but I decided to file them all away and share only this old story: The old town drunk died. His two sons, the bank president and the new town drunk were at his funeral. An onlooker, surprised at how different the two sons were, asked each one how he turned out the way he did. The bank president responded, "With a father like that, how else could I…
An interesting note: filing your feelings away is what caused this whole thing. Of course, the ones you're filing away may not be as painful for you, but still.
I think repression is an area where people use the same words to talk about different things. Which is why I try and separating things as Successful repression which is used by most people on a regular basis and can be extremely helpful. However, "Whenever I think about what happened I feel manic and itchy and can't concentrate on anything else." suggests that the pain was not repressed just ignored which does not really deal with the problem.
Don't get me wrong ignoring things is also a useful technique for short term pain. However, it's best used for things like planing the funeral etc and if you are still using it after a few years it's really time to try something else / seek help.
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#114This might be a good time to mention that we are looking for volunteers for http://CompassionPit.com/ . It was created by people who have struggled with depression for most of their life. The other day someone commented about it, "I used CompassionPit for the first time this week. I really like the idea of it. Reminds me of when I reached out to an online videogame friend when I was 12 years old when I was super depr…
Is it OK to have a rational outlook on life? I have at times considered volunteering for things like CompassionPit, but I guess my view of the world might seem weird to some people. For starters, I am not religious, and for some religion might be the only consolation?
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's something very deeply troubling about your comment, though--the idea that reasons and logic don't matter. That's plain irrational dogmatism, and the fact that it's dressed up to support a relatively uncontroversial conclusion like "suicide is always wrong" doesn't justify it. I'm not saying Bill Zeller was right to commit suicide--who can know that?--I'm saying there's something wrong about your reasoning her…
It's not that reason and logic don't matter. Reason and logic are imperfect tools, though, and engineering is a different sort of problem than deciding whether a friend should live or die. Honestly, hope for the future is often an irrational idea. It can be difficult to defend - especially against someone who is bright - but it is essential. I don't believe that suicide is always wrong. I do believe that the lives we…
Reason and logic are not imperfect, only used imperfectly by flawed beings.
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#116Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong? He was so afraid to let the secret out... maybe that needs to be made easier...? I have no idea--I can't even begin to empathize with how difficult that must have been to live with.
We have to make steps towards 100% trustable counsellors to talk to. Certification programs, regular auditions. Have them live together in a remote place with the rule that talking about patients means expulsion. I'm just spitballing here, but I'm sure there is some way to have guaranteed trustable people to talk to.
And then make sure that people with trust issues find them. This would surely save many lifes. Why aren't we doing this?
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
From reading the letter you can tell he was suffering extremely from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder throughout much of his life. I did not feel sad as much as disgusted that, through our politicians, we have: A) made illegal the most effective treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder : MDMA B) continue to support the primary generator of new PTSD cases: war If you want to do something other than sit around feelin…
I did not feel sad as much as disgusted that, through our politicians, we have: A) made illegal the most effective treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder : MDMA B) continue to support the primary generator of new PTSD cases: war A) You're going to have to do better than The Times, MSNBC, and a pro-psychedelic-legalization think tank to say MDMA is the most effective treatment. I'm not closed-minded to the idea…
Excellent extensive ABC news documentary on MDMA, and the false propoanda war against it. Hosted by Peter Jennings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjvNCijeYlI
They even interview former rape victims and the affect it had on them.
You'll see that the government study listing its negative effects was false, disproved by several independent studies and later withdrawn bu the author, apologizing for his mistakes, like giving meth to his mice, instead of MDMA, oops.
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
This whole thing has been making me think: It'd be expensive as hell and not covered by medical insurance, and it sounds crazy, but I wonder if talking to a lawyer would've helped. A study I can no longer locate found that talking to any intelligent person who shows an interest is comparable to a professional therapist; and lawyers generally take the privacy of their clients very seriously.
The Model Rules of Professional Conduct (with each state adopting their own, perhaps different rules) allow a lawyer to disclose confidential client information to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm. MRPC 1.6(b)(1). So the lawyer may have kept his confidence, but may have had the option to disclose. Unfortunately, not the steel trap that Bill was looking for.
> Unfortunately, not the steel trap that Bill was looking for.
A catholic priest may not reveal anything he learned during the confession, no exceptions. That's the only "profession" I know with such a strong promise of confidentiality.
"Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason." http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3G.HTM
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#119I think he should have joined doctors without borders, peace corps or whatever it is called, or one of those Christian mission (even though he had a problem with Christians) . He may have found peace in helping those who suffered more then him
Do you really think most of the people doctors without borders helped suffered as much as he did?
I don't think any of us can honestly answer that question. Why is it even relevant what state most of the people are in.
Re: RIP Bill Zeller
#120A note of caution: If you choose to read the actual suicide note as I did, be prepared for a rather intense emotional trip. I don't mean to say that to dissuade anyone from reading it, but just that... I was not expecting what I ended up reading and it really made me sit back and, I dunno, just be sad for awhile. Such a shame.
I stopped during the second paragraph, because I suspected as much. Maybe I'll read his old blogs instead, he was sounding like a captivating writer.