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Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

nytimes.com

231–240 of 372 posts

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#231
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>never liked when rules got in the way of progress. Yes, that seems to be the Silicon Valley Culture. "Move fast and break things" "Its better to apologize and seek forgiveness, than ask for permission" "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not…

I used to go back to my university and speak at the ethics class in my recruiting trips. I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.

The regulations that Uber and Airbnb violated were in a grey area. In addition, the violations were largely supported by the general public. The generous spirit of the regulations on taxis where to protect the general public. Uber were for the most part just as safe as taxis. The not so generous reasons for taxi regulations was to increase the income of taxi companies. In many ways, Uber and Airbnb had the moral high ground of forcing governments to remove regulations that benefit a select few at the expense of the general public.

https://stratechery.com/2017/the-uber-conflation/

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#232
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this movement toward resolving such conflicts in the courts, instead of by companies competing to out-innovate one another, is very troubling. A lot of the things you cite were actually fought out in the courts. Motorola sued MOS Technology [1]. AMD and Intel have been in constant legal battles since their inception. The complicated question of Unix ownership started the famous SCO-Linux litigation. This isn't a…

Do you think MOStek would have been able to survive in today's legal environment? I don't think so, and that's what worries me. The SCO-Linux litigation wasn't complicated. It was just fraud on SCO's part, under copyright law that was well-established at the time. With the Google/Oracle precedent in place, SCO would probably win. I agree that Levandowski, like weev, is profoundly unsympathetic, but we can't let that…

If he wins, why bother investing in research, just steal someone else's.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#233
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think MOStek would have been able to survive in today's legal environment? I don't think so, and that's what worries me. The SCO-Linux litigation wasn't complicated. It was just fraud on SCO's part, under copyright law that was well-established at the time. With the Google/Oracle precedent in place, SCO would probably win. I agree that Levandowski, like weev, is profoundly unsympathetic, but we can't let that…

The Google-Oracle precedent is not actually relevant to SCO v IBM, because IBM didn't re-implement an interface copyrighted by SCO.

You're right, of course, because it turned out SCO wasn't the owner of the relevant copyright.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this movement toward resolving such conflicts in the courts, instead of by companies competing to out-innovate one another, is very troubling. A lot of the things you cite were actually fought out in the courts. Motorola sued MOS Technology [1]. AMD and Intel have been in constant legal battles since their inception. The complicated question of Unix ownership started the famous SCO-Linux litigation. This isn't a…

> The complicated question of Unix ownership started the famous SCO-Linux litigation. This isn't anything new. Just a bit correction there. SCO-Linux litigation is pretty contemporary. Way back before then, there was the System-V vs BSD "Unix wars" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_wars ) SCO-Linux litigation was just the SCO assholes wanting to get a piece of the pie when they were dying out.

There was also a fair bit of speculation that it was some folks in Redmond using SCO as a tool to spread FUD [0].

[0] https://www.cnet.com/news/sco-leaked-e-mail-a-misunderstandi...

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#235
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the logical conclusion redefines 'severance' to mean leaving my head at the door on the way out. Or just leaving the industry, or lifetime employment with a single company — hardly unthinkable; in fact, it was the rule in the US within living memory, and I've worked at companies where the majority of engineers were lifers. This would be a very favorable outcome for investors in your company: they get the fruits…

> It's not such a favorable outcome for engineers It's a favorable outcome for people who want stability. There is huge value in knowing that you're not going to get fired unless you do something actively malicious. Some people aren't interested in climbing, have poor interviewing skills, and don't want to deal with the cognitive overhead of learning a different company's tech stack every two years. Plus, most compan…

You are saying it like having just 4 weeks of paid holidays is a great achievement. I don’t want to disillude you, but when I was very, very junior in EU 5-6 weeks were taken for granted from the first day of work, and in one case I had 7 weeks. Now I an not a permanent anymore, I don’t have any paid holidays whatsoever and I’m much, much happier.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how true this is, but I heard Oracle "ripped" off Sybase's code base at some early point... Where's Sybase now and where's Oracle, eh? :) edit: quoted "ripped off" due to correction from response, it was a legal deal.

You mean the joint venture between Microsoft and Sybase that led to SQL Server? This was legal, soup to nuts.

My bad. Ripped off is not the right word. Though nice leverage, if you can afford it :).

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S., Levandowski caused similar drama when he was in Google's self-driving car division too, per the book Autonomy by Lawrence D Burns.

It's baffling to me how everyone seems to hate the guy and say he was a terrible leader, employee, and person, and yet companies seemed to have been valuing him like a diamond. How did that work? Is he just good at duping and persuading and sweet-talking people? Does he have some past accomplishments that were respectable? Does he have some insight into autonomous driving no one else has? Why would Google and Uber be…

According to the book Autonomy, he was a pioneer in the field of self-driving car, and excelled at making things happen. That said, he was always controversial and ethically dubious even when he was in Google. As the org that he was in grew larger. And he certainly failed in large enough orgs, such as Uber.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how true this is, but I heard Oracle "ripped" off Sybase's code base at some early point... Where's Sybase now and where's Oracle, eh? :) edit: quoted "ripped off" due to correction from response, it was a legal deal.

Sybase’s database code is doing quite well, in its perfectly-legal descendant, Microsoft SQL Server (Microsoft partnered with Sybase—and Ashton-Tate—on porting Sybase’s software to OS/2 in a deal that included Microsoft getting exclusive rights to make the database on x86 shortly after its first release, and when the deal ended Microsoft kept the rights to continue developing and marketing the database, though Sybase…

Ashton Tate... whew, that rings bells.. dbase3 and foxpro :). Thanks for the walk down memory lane, I get nostalgic sometimes for my C64 too.

And I'm not -that- old :)

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#239
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's tragic and awful. I think calling this a "shortcut" though is misleading, at least from what the times is reporting here. It's one thing to own your own brain, it's another take 14K files, including circuit board designs and lidar designs. It's yet another to start using them at new-co that is a direct competitor to old-co. I'm by no means an IP fanatic, but that really does cross over to theft in my mind. But…

Taking PCB design files and using them at a competing company absolutely is IP theft. I'm honestly surprised anyone would think they could even get away with this; the old company just has to get their hands on one of the competitor's units and open it up and look at it.

Many of us do not believe IP is a legitimate property right.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But he didn't take the engineer/entrepreneur route. He took the corporate espionage route and just stole stuff from one company so that another company would profit, in the process further enriching himself. Levandowski actually had his own startup Otto which was acquired by Uber.

It was acquired in eight months, and founded specifically after Levandowski and Kalanick had a meeting. Otto looks like a prearranged sham legal entity to justify a huge payout, than a bonafide startup.

"If you buy us, you'll also buy some Waymo code"
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