Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How do we cut down on emissions from steel, cement, and plastic?

gatesnotes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 129 posts

Re: How do we cut down on emissions from steel, cement, and plastic?

#31

Post by toomuchtodo »

travisoneill1 wrote: post #29
toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost [1]. Time from breaking ground to "permission to operate" as well (even if you cut red tape and systemize manufacturing of nuclear generators, you will not be as fast as wind, solar, and batteries). Solar PV Thin Film Utility Scale: $36-$44/MWh | Onshore Wind: $29-$56/MWh | Nuclear: $112-$189/MWh Can you build nuclear faster than the rest of the world can build and install PV solar and onshore/offshore wind turb…

You conveniently forgot to list the costs of storage from the source you linked. The costs range from $108-$471 for utility scale storage. So nuclear is the clear winner in cost because it doesn't require this.

My comment within this thread communicates my belief that batteries will get cheaper faster than nuclear (solar and wind are fast approaching 1 cent/kwh; as that cost continues to decline storage will be the bulk of the cost of utility power). If you think I'm wrong, invest in nuclear. If nuclear was a clear winner, it would be funded and built. But it seems there are better ways to replace the last 100GW of US nuclear generating capacity, based on market participant actions.

Re: How do we cut down on emissions from steel, cement, and plastic?

#33

Post by SECProto »

> Making steel and other materials—such as cement, plastic, glass, aluminum, and paper—is the third biggest contributor of greenhouse gases, behind agriculture and making electricity

While I agree in broad terms that eliminating greenhouse gases in the materials sector is important medium-term, I agree with other posters here that we need to focus hard on implementing solutions we DO have now - specifically, in the electricity and transportation sectors.

> these materials are everywhere in our lives, and we don’t yet have any proven breakthroughs that will give us affordable zero-carbon versions of them

This is at least partially misleading - for aluminum. There are a number of hydroelectric-powered aluminum smelters in Quebec and British Columbia, that produce very-low-carbon aluminum. And there are technologies approaching market for zero-carbon aluminum[1].

[1] https://www.elysis.com/en

Re: How do we cut down on emissions from steel, cement, and plastic?

#35

Post by Ididntdothis »

RickJWagner wrote: post #34

Bill Gates has become-- against all odds-- one of my most respected sources of information when he blogs. I don't always agree with him, but I like his thought processes and writing style.

Agreed. I often disagree with him but at least he makes an effort to present ideas based on facts and well thought out ideas. This makes finding solutions much easier.

I am always horrified by the debate about US healthcare we’re almost nobody makes an effort to think it through and also listen to other opinions and experiences.

Re: How do we cut down on emissions from steel, cement, and plastic?

#36

Post by garmaine »

SECProto wrote: post #33

> Making steel and other materials—such as cement, plastic, glass, aluminum, and paper—is the third biggest contributor of greenhouse gases, behind agriculture and making electricity While I agree in broad terms that eliminating greenhouse gases in the materials sector is important medium-term, I agree with other posters here that we need to focus hard on implementing solutions we DO have now - specifically, in the e…

It’s not the source of power. It’s the chemical process itself. You get oxygen out of a metal oxide by binding it with carbon and releasing the CO2. Canadian smelting is just as dirty in this respect.

The only other alternative is electrolyzing water to get hydrogen, which binds with the metal oxide’s oxygen to make water again.

But not only is this really inefficient by comparison, but now you’re adding O2 to the atmosphere at industrial scale.

Re: How do we cut down on emissions from steel, cement, and plastic?

#37

Post by Ididntdothis »

kd5bjo wrote: post #16
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your definition of "runaway". If runaway = Venus, then no, there is no adapting to that.

Humans are really good at adapting to new situations; even if climate change causes a massive reduction in population and standard of living, I’m confident that some humans will survive. I don’t know what the solutions will look like, but sci-fi authors have shown us some semi-plausible solutions: domed, climate controlled cities here or elsewhere in the solar system; generation ships that aren’t dependent on any pla…

“even if climate change causes a massive reduction in population and standard of living, I’m confident that some humans will survive.”

I agree with that. Humanity will go on. But we may have a lot of wars and suffering while adapting to the new world.

Re: How do we cut down on emissions from steel, cement, and plastic?

#38

Post by Ygg2 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #25
seren wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that nuclear is running 24/7 even if it is not windy (minus the costly maintenance). As long as we don't have a superconductor grid around whole hemisphere, it seems to be the best way to generate power at night.

If it was the best, the entire US commercial generator fleet wouldn't be on death's door due to the economics. If you want to subsidize the last 59 US nuclear plants based on their low CO2 emissions, extending their operating license (if it can be done safely) until cleaner base load arrives, that's a sound decision. Building more nuclear is not. I question if we even have the fortitude to fund safe cleanup of existi…

> Batteries will get cheaper faster than nuclear ever will

That's a bold claim. Batteries could also suffer from law of diminishing returns. It might not be physically possible to store energy much more densely, without catastrophic failures.

Re: How do we cut down on emissions from steel, cement, and plastic?

#39

Post by Ididntdothis »

truculent wrote: post #5
pbreit wrote: post #3

Unpopular opinion: adaptation is best (only?) solution.

Unpopular opinion: adaptation at +4C is genocide

Yes. A lot of wars and displaced people. The question is whether rich countries or people can isolate themselves from the upheaval or will suffer themselves.
Post reply on HN