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Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

nytimes.com

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Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#191

Post by choppaface »

cletus wrote: post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

But why didn’t anybody at Google stand up against him?

Levandowski is also responsible for perhaps the first incident of Google’s self-driving car causing a freeway crash, and he circulated a video of it to the team:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal...

Levandowski wasn’t the only Chauffeur engineer to collect gobs of cash and run. The founders of Nuro headed out with $40m each. Chris Urmson and Bryan Salesky now run dueling start-ups.

What does accountability at Google even look like? Is it just too daunting to stand up and raise a flag?

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#192

Post by magduf »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #84
inlined wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to go back to my university and speak at the ethics class in my recruiting trips. I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.

> “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer. I'll try my hand at an answer. First, what is legal and what is ethical are not the same. New York City's pre-Uber taxi industry was racist, exploitative and ripe with fraud. Uber disrupted that cesspool. As recently as 2015, Uber was popular enough among average New Yorkers that it could mobilize grass…

This is a really great post and restores a little bit of my faith in humanity.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#193

Post by r00fus »

inlined wrote: post #35
throwaway_law wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>never liked when rules got in the way of progress. Yes, that seems to be the Silicon Valley Culture. "Move fast and break things" "Its better to apologize and seek forgiveness, than ask for permission" "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not…

I used to go back to my university and speak at the ethics class in my recruiting trips. I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.

You could cite many powerful politicians and heads of state as far more unethical and impactful than AirBnB or Uber.

Do we still need to strive for ethics in government?

Perhaps your response should have been for accountability for unethical behavior.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#194

Post by CalChris »

pslam wrote: post #58
uuilly wrote: post #14

I used to work for Anthony at 510 systems. He tried to hire me for Otto as well. Watching this whole thing unfold from, obscure story in 2011 to the Waymo Vs. Uber trial to federal charges and national news is rather surreal. Anthony is one of the most creative, energetic thinkers I've ever encountered. If he stopped taking shortcuts he'd probably be the next Jobs or Musk.

I have no idea about this guy, but in my experience, people like this always seem to be pleasant, creative types on the outside. Every now and then in conversation they hold weird viewpoints you just can't reconcile with their projected image, and wonder if you've misjudged them. They usually turn out to have an underlying wonky or absent moral compass, and abusive personality traits. The outward image is a confidenc…

Lewandowski evidently was very creative. I don't think that's in any doubt. His Google Maps work is genius.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#195

Post by magduf »

amyjess wrote: post #144
throwaway_law wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer. You should go back to it, as those are examples of why ethics are needed more than ever. As someone in the "trenches" and who sees the damage done by them everyday, I'd suggest you can point to the trail of damage they left in their wake and the real lives th…

I would also recommend hanging out on subreddits like /r/uberdrivers, /r/lyftdrivers, or /r/lyft and look for every instance of drivers using "we're independent contractors" to justify abusive behavior towards customers that would get them fired if they were actual employees and in some cases behavior that is straight-up illegal. Some things I've actually seen on those subreddits: * Give three-star ratings (or worse,…

>to justify abusive behavior towards customers

I guess you never used taxis before Uber was invented! The whole industry has been a huge racket for decades.

>Redlining is illegal, and this is straight-up fraud.

I guess you were never black and trying to get a taxi in NYC to go to the Bronx. There were countless complaints from black people about this practice with the cabs.

Basically, while your complaints are justified, though they definitely seem like cherry-picking the worst horror stories, the situation wasn't actually any better before these services existed. People didn't have any recourse when cab drivers treated them poorly, or made up bogus fares, turned off the taximeter and made up numbers, drove them around in circles to make more money, etc. It didn't matter that the drivers were technically employees; the cab companies had an oligopoly enforced by law, and didn't have to worry about customer service or reputation. And there certainly was no way for customers to inform each other about lousy drivers.

The real problem here is a lack of decent government regulation, and worse, when the (local) government does try to regulate, it just results in cronyism and high prices rather than better service and experience for the taxpayer.

I'll also point out that Uber doesn't have much presence in Japan, because their taxi drivers are actually highly professional and aren't a bunch of lying crooks like the ones in America, so people don't feel the need to flock to it. The fundamental problem is obviously the culture and the people in America, and that's why Uber is successful there.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#196

Post by r00fus »

groundlogic wrote: post #16
dekhn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal... The company was less than a decade old, but it had almost seventeen thousand employees, including a thick layer of middle managers. Levandowski recently told me, “One of the reasons they wanted us was because Larry Page knew we were scrappy—we would cut through red tape.” Page, Google’s co-founder and chief executive, often complained that the company ha…

Hacking around internal bureaucracy in a smart way is one thing, stealing IP for your next gig is something else.

One could reasonably argue that one level of ignoring rules logically led to the next level - of ignoring laws.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#197

Post by walshemj »

javert wrote: post #182
walshemj wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to some countries the USA does ask any Engineer from India about relieving letters and bonds.

> relieving letters and bonds I don't know what a relieving letter is and I only know of a bond as a debt instrument. Can you explain?

I might be simplifying it but:

A reliving Letter is document that your employer must (effectively) provide so you can resign and work for some one else, they can hold you hostage.

Bond in this term refers to "An employment bond contains a clause which requires the employee to serve the employer compulsorily for a specific period of time or else refund the amount specified as bond value."

Basically an indentured servant. A friend of mine who was head of UNI described it as "horrific".

UNI is a global union so they also work with textile workers in poor countries so describing working practices for professionals in India as "horrific" shows how bad it is.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#198

Post by walshemj »

kragen wrote: post #177
walshemj wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And from all accounts Shockly was a hard man to work for.

Indeed, but because of the legal climate at the time, his “Traitorous Eight” had the option of exiting. Today they'd have to put up with Shockley.

A few yeas ago a mate who worked for TI told me about a time he shared a flight with a v senior guy from TI (Texas Instruments).

On the flight the senior guy mentioned "Gee I wish I had gone in with those guys" And I don't think he was talking about Intel :-)

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#199

Post by bumby »

debt wrote: post #143
cletus wrote: post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

“Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google” God forbid an engineer get paid what he’s actually worth. If anything he should’ve been paid much more . The automobile industry is a multi trillion dollar industry he’d be be disrupting. Honestly, Google may have been paying him to “die” like tech companies do sometimes as rationale for acquisition: to eliminate competition. Maybe he picked up on it and…

It isn't uncommon for employees to sign over their rights over the intellectual property they develop using the company resources. The argument being those resources were a necessary component and the person was compensated for delivering that product. Some go even further to cover any work done off hours as well because the company's resources provide the knowledge necessary for that work, but that can be more of a grey area

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#200

Post by dpark »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #187
cletus wrote: post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

>> Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. $120 Mil is about half after taxes. Or nothing, depending on the crowd Levandowski hang out with or wanted to join. Private jets, Aspen ranches etc etc cost a lot of money... IMO he felt he would get away with it and become a billionaire. Fame and billions might not let you…

> $120 Mil is about half after taxes. Or nothing, depending on the crowd Levandowski hang out with or wanted to join.

Taxes don’t increase or decrease based on the “crowd you want to join”.

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