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Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

nytimes.com

141–150 of 372 posts

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#141
post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

I don’t know details about his work at Google but it isn’t uncommon for people who have gotten caught criminally to have done plenty to push the envelope over the years, with actions going from ok, to aggressive, to sleazy, to unethical (but still legal), to unethical (possibly civil offenses), and eventually to criminal. It isn’t usually that someone turns overnight.

Again, I don’t know details here but if you see past corporate crime stories, people got rewarded on the way to the end, which served as positive reinforcement for them to think they are doing the right thing.

For example, the conflicts of interest — and eventual rewards — at 510 Systems were quite possibly a major positive reinforcement.

https://www.wired.com/story/god-is-a-bot-and-anthony-levando...

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out other reports - he clearly was enabled by lary for a long time by letting him get away with anything (self-dealing, employee abuse, borderline illegal stuff, etc). Not surprising he felt invincible after this. Just like with social clusterfuck Lary bears at least part of the blame here.

Do you have any sources? I haven't heard of that (although it would hardly surprise me), would be curious to read.

https://www.wired.com/story/god-is-a-bot-and-anthony-levando...

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#143
post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

“Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google”

God forbid an engineer get paid what he’s actually worth.

If anything he should’ve been paid much more. The automobile industry is a multi trillion dollar industry he’d be be disrupting.

Honestly, Google may have been paying him to “die” like tech companies do sometimes as rationale for acquisition: to eliminate competition.

Maybe he picked up on it and decided to move on.

Google doesn’t own technology he invented.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#144
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to go back to my university and speak at the ethics class in my recruiting trips. I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.

>I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer. You should go back to it, as those are examples of why ethics are needed more than ever. As someone in the "trenches" and who sees the damage done by them everyday, I'd suggest you can point to the trail of damage they left in their wake and the real lives th…

I would also recommend hanging out on subreddits like /r/uberdrivers, /r/lyftdrivers, or /r/lyft and look for every instance of drivers using "we're independent contractors" to justify abusive behavior towards customers that would get them fired if they were actual employees and in some cases behavior that is straight-up illegal.

Some things I've actually seen on those subreddits:

* Give three-star ratings (or worse, one-star) to any passenger who has a wheelchair or a service animal to make sure you're never matched with them again. Straight-up ADA violation.

* When you mark that you've arrived, keep your doors locked until the destination shows up, and if it's a "sketchy" (read: majority black) neighborhood, keep your doors locked, wait five minutes, call them, immediately hang up, report them as a no-show, and collect a $5 no-show fee from them (waiting five minutes and calling is a requirement to collect the no-show fee). Redlining is illegal, and this is straight-up fraud.

* If you get a request to pick someone up at a supermarket, drive just close enough to the supermarket that the "arrive" button becomes pressable, then do the above and collect your no-show fee. Again, straight-up fraud.

* One-star every passenger who doesn't tip. Retaliating against people who don't tip would get you fired from any other service job.

* One-star every passenger who orders a shared ride, no matter what. Again, that kind of retaliation would get a real employee fired. (Yes, shared rides suck for everyone involved, but retaliating against a customer for ordering the most annoying thing on the menu wouldn't be tolerated at a restaurant, yet Uber and Lyft are a-OK with it.)

* One time, a woman complained about how a Lyft driver kicked her out of his car in the middle of the ride because she just nodded along to his stories and didn't engage him in conversation, and he told her "if you don't want to talk, order an Uber instead". The response on the subreddit was universal: he's an independent contractor, so he has every right to kick her out for any reason, and Lyft isn't even allowed to fire him for it because that would count as interference in how an independent contractor does their job. At any other job, flipping out on a customer for not making enough conversation with you would get you in huge trouble, and advertising your employer's biggest competitor would get you fired in a heartbeat.

* This came from the Rideshare Guy blog and not Reddit: since repeatedly cancelling rides after accepting it will get you in trouble, drivers used cancel rides by putting their phones in airplane mode because a loss of connectivity would auto-cancel without penalties. When Uber started detecting that a few years ago (2014-5 maybe?) and counting it against a driver's cancellation rate, drivers started picketing Uber's local hubs over it. In the rest of the service industry, lying to your employer over this would get you in huge hot water, and publicly complaining about it even more so.

Every single one of these was justified by saying "we're independent contractors, we can refuse service to anyone for any reason". Again, a few of these are straight-up illegal, but since only the contractor is liable and not Uber/Lyft, enforcement is exceedingly difficult, and for the ones that aren't illegal, they're still unethical, and any reputable employer would fire an employee engaging in that kind of behavior, but Uber/Lyft drivers get to hide behind "we're contractors and not employees, so Uber/Lyft firing us for how we treat customers would violate our rights".

Unethical behavior is actively harmful to customers.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#146
post #140
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the truth is more nuanced: production is a collective endeavor that requires knowledge, energy, raw materials, labor, and capital equipment. Here in Argentina, the government is still in the hands of landowners, who control the raw materials, just like in the medieval feudal system. The US, on the other hand, is largely run by investors, whose access to capital to invest in capital equipment was the crucial limi…

If for example, your government were to ban import of these computers from other countries, say, for a few years. Do you think that would have any effect on the economy of the country? Do you think this would spur curiosity where the energy spent on idolizing Maradona is instead focused on developing the expertise needed to develop computers locally?

It would spur smuggling, and anyone who's trying to manufacture things locally that contain computers would have to move their manufacturing offshore, maybe to Uruguay. For a while I worked at Satellogic; they manufacture their satellites in Uruguay because, during the currency-exchange controls a few years ago, it was impossible to reliably import the necessary components into Argentina. (Those controls are coming back, most likely, in December.)

Also, anyone who wants to do deep-learning research would have to go overseas, unless paying the inflated rates AWS charges was ⓐ feasible in practice (i.e., Argentine banks still allow you to pay Amazon with your credit cards, and ⓑ not so expensive it sinks your research project.

More broadly, what you're suggesting is called "import-substitution industrialization", and it was the mainstream economic policy throughout Latin America during most of the 20th century. By contrast, during that time, most Asian countries focused on "export-oriented industrialization". This is the major reason why countries like Japan, Korea, and Taiwan are roughly as rich as the US, while Latin America has become relatively poorer and poorer. I consider import-substitution industrialization a failed experiment, like Communism.

But it did give us Lua!

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps he's innocent?

> Perhaps he's innocent? Perhaps. However, one of the ways prosecutor maintain a 95%+ conviction rate is to only pursue cases they are extremely confident they could win in court. And sure, just because someone loses in court or pleas out doesn't mean they are actually guilty, but it's the best system we have.

[deleted]

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#148
post #93
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like most software engineers don't really take intellectual property all that seriously. Most will not think twice about backing up emails when leaving the company which might contain code diffs, design docs, etc. You can't be serious. I would never think of doing this, and I can't imagine who would.

You'd be a rare bird. Most employees don't even bother to not pirate software, look at porn or whatever on their work laptops. Its somewhat hilarious.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

I know a lot of engineers at a lot of companies who look at porn on their work laptops (which isn't illegal). I don't know a single engineer who would take documents from their previous company to their new company (which is very illegal).

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#149
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Levandowski had only taken the secrets that were in his head, he would have been fine. He took actual code written by other people.

> If Levandowski had only taken the secrets that were in his head, he would have been fine. Kai-Fu Lee wasn't. Evan Brown wasn't (edited to clarify: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/08/12/alcatel_owns_us_emp... ). Don't be so quick to fall prey to the Just World Fallacy, assuming that bad precedents will never be applied against good people. Remember, too, that the founders of Fairchild and of Intel had lots of kno…

> Kai-Fu Lee wasn't.

Microsoft sued Google in civil court over a non-compete agreement, not theft. The settlement allowed Lee to keep his job, so other than five months of anxiety I'm not sure how he wasn't "fine". Levandowski is being charged with 33 counts in a criminal indictment. These cases are not even in the same ballpark.

> Evan Brown wasn't.

I don't know who that is, and there are apparently too many notable people named "Evan Brown" for me to figure it out without more context.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#150
post #143
post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

“Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google” God forbid an engineer get paid what he’s actually worth. If anything he should’ve been paid much more . The automobile industry is a multi trillion dollar industry he’d be be disrupting. Honestly, Google may have been paying him to “die” like tech companies do sometimes as rationale for acquisition: to eliminate competition. Maybe he picked up on it and…

Is he worth that much though? Everyone seems to paint him as a genius, but is his value 5x the other engineers on the team? 10x? 100x? It seems like there are plenty of smart and talented people you could hire for your self-driving car initiative that are 1% his price. Or, flipping it around, if self-driving engineers are really worth $100MM+ then maybe they should band together and work for themselves.
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