If you must run Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#61

Post by krisrm » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

charlesdaniels wrote: post #34

owenwil wrote: post #2

I see a lot of angry posts like this, but fail to understand how it's reflected in reality in 2019—I agree that Windows 10 was a little messy at launch, but it's come a long way from where many of these complaints seem to stem from. Yeah, Windows has a bad rap, but in the last 2-4 years has come leaps and bounds from where it was—implementing great, thoughtfully designed features on a regular basis, for free. With WS…

As someone who has used Linux (with a few brief stints into macOS and BSD) for quite some time (since about 2012) coming from Windows before that, I don't understand the people who constantly defend Windows in these types of posts... In principle, the feature set that Windows 10 ships could be useful. I don't find it appealing personally, but if it works well for you then that's great. The issue that I have had is th…

Anecdotally, I've had about the opposite experience. Never have been able to get a graphics card to perform well under any version of desktop Linux I've used, the sleep feature generally hasn't worked, fan control is all over the map, and I hate using terminal to configure everything. Windows has almost always just worked fine for me, as it does for ~80% of anyone using a desktop OS.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#62

Post by dTal » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

owenwil wrote: post #37

hackcasual wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are tired of an OS that by default phones home about actions you do on it, include advertisement in your start area, and regularly push updates to add new features that also break existing software.

The 'phones home' argument doesn't really add up—there's plenty of control over this at this point, and every OS is calling home, macOS included, to some degree. The advertisements thing happens out of the box, and is trivial to remove (if my memory is correct, Safari harasses you about being the default browser, too, if you try to change it). The updates to add features thing.... isn't an issue for me, but YMMV.

Oh yeah, plenty of control. Just book the afternoon off and follow this handy-dandy guide:

https://github.com/adolfintel/Windows10-Privacy

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#63

Post by nvrspyx » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

owenwil wrote: post #37

hackcasual wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are tired of an OS that by default phones home about actions you do on it, include advertisement in your start area, and regularly push updates to add new features that also break existing software.

The 'phones home' argument doesn't really add up—there's plenty of control over this at this point, and every OS is calling home, macOS included, to some degree. The advertisements thing happens out of the box, and is trivial to remove (if my memory is correct, Safari harasses you about being the default browser, too, if you try to change it). The updates to add features thing.... isn't an issue for me, but YMMV.

macOS does not harass you about being the default browser. All it does is show a separator in the dropdown menu [1], which I've always assumed to indicate that it's "built-in". Meanwhile, Windows will show "Recommended" next to Edge, show a pop-up asking you to try Edge before switching the default browser, and then continue to harass you every time you use Bing from a different browser on Windows. Chrome does the latter on Google as well.

1: https://imgur.com/xqnueDe

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#64

Post by ropeladder » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

dsego wrote: post #49

president wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a feature standpoint, Windows has definitely improved in the last few years, however, I don't see much improvement in terms of UX. To me, Windows development was always about "let's get this feature in so we can claim that we do X" but Microsoft has never proven themselves in terms of providing a cohesive experience in terms of inter-app behaviors or just UI/UX streamlining. This is extremely apparent when you l…

I can certainly notice a lack of polish. As someone who is now considering win 10 over ubuntu, I can spot many minor annoyances, for example can't change volume by scrolling on the taskbar speaker icon, or ctrl-w doesn't close the settings window. Then, apart from games, windows surprisingly doesn't have that many mid-tier apps, unlike mac os, so not much better than ubuntu in that regard. Such a sad state of affairs…

(FYI: Get 7+TaskbarTweaker if you want to change the volume by scrolling anywhere on the taskbar.)

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#65

Post by wvenable » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

hyperman1 wrote: post #53

owenwil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UX is incrementally improving in every release. Through just the last few major releases, you've gotten Airdrop-style sharing (the new Share menu), full system-wide indexing and instant search, a unified control panel and a ton of other things. They're moving fast, but incrementally enough that it may not be noticable—but I vastly prefer the fast-follow improvements over the 1-3 yearly 'big bang' releases Apple h…

That's basically the problem: If they stay on cours improving the UI, in 5 years or so we reach the consistency, polish, performance and usability that windows 2000 used to have. There are some nice improvements since then too, but also a lot of user-hostile functionality. It doesn't seem wort the trade off to me.

The most obvious change right now is Microsoft slowly changing over to the Settings app from the Control Panel. It's really interesting how many more items it gets with every release.

Sure, maybe the control panel was "consistent" in 2000 but it was always user-hostile. The settings app, when finished, will be much better for users. And if they keep the Control Panel around for power-users -- all the better.

I appreciate that Microsoft is doing good software engineering here; they aren't trying to replace everything at once but instead moving things over and releasing it to users early and often. This is the right approach. And yes, maybe it will be 5 years before it's consistent and polished but at least it will get there.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#66

Post by bpyne » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

charlesdaniels wrote: post #34

owenwil wrote: post #2

I see a lot of angry posts like this, but fail to understand how it's reflected in reality in 2019—I agree that Windows 10 was a little messy at launch, but it's come a long way from where many of these complaints seem to stem from. Yeah, Windows has a bad rap, but in the last 2-4 years has come leaps and bounds from where it was—implementing great, thoughtfully designed features on a regular basis, for free. With WS…

As someone who has used Linux (with a few brief stints into macOS and BSD) for quite some time (since about 2012) coming from Windows before that, I don't understand the people who constantly defend Windows in these types of posts... In principle, the feature set that Windows 10 ships could be useful. I don't find it appealing personally, but if it works well for you then that's great. The issue that I have had is th…

My employer mandates it so I use Win10 at work. At home, I'm macOS.

I replied elsewhere in this comment thread that Win10 is the first Windows version that I found usable.

I don't game. So, I probably don't stress the os the same way you do.

I run Eclipse, an Eclipse-based tool called Anypoint Studio, Netbeans, PyCharm, various developer tools like Git, Toad, etc. Also, I run various MS-based tools due to employer mandate. Overall, it's a pretty vanilla setup but it's all that I need to write software for my employer.

We don't run VM's or containers of any kind.

My main problem with Windows in the past has been BSoD happening in the middle of testing software, wiping out my entire setup. Win10 hasn't done it even once to me. So, I'm happy with it.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#67

Post by slenk » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

Scramblejams wrote: post #57

owenwil wrote: post #2

I see a lot of angry posts like this, but fail to understand how it's reflected in reality in 2019—I agree that Windows 10 was a little messy at launch, but it's come a long way from where many of these complaints seem to stem from. Yeah, Windows has a bad rap, but in the last 2-4 years has come leaps and bounds from where it was—implementing great, thoughtfully designed features on a regular basis, for free. With WS…

I'm glad you like it, but I use Windows 10 daily and I have a bunch of ongoing issues with it. I had to have IT reimage a Win 10 Enterprise machine because Cortana had somehow gotten so screwed up (how? I turn it off) that my Start Menu stopped returning results and I couldn't launch anything by typing. On another Enterprise machine, my Start Menu periodically starts coming up black and then disappears. I have to for…

While I agree with some points, the computer restarting, DNS not working, etc seem like restrictions implemented by your corporate IT - not issues with Windows 10

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#68

Post by fhood » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #45

charlesdaniels wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has used Linux (with a few brief stints into macOS and BSD) for quite some time (since about 2012) coming from Windows before that, I don't understand the people who constantly defend Windows in these types of posts... In principle, the feature set that Windows 10 ships could be useful. I don't find it appealing personally, but if it works well for you then that's great. The issue that I have had is th…

Whatever you're doing, it's not typical. My main desktop has been upgraded from Windows 7, WIndows 8, 8.1, and now Windows 10. I've never have to re-install in all that time. It's stable and fast. No update issues. This is really the norm. And I'm not particularly easy on Windows -- I have tons of development tools, games, customizations. I've changed hardware.

It varies. I have two windows 10 machines that I use regularly. My personal desktop, which has been perhaps the most reliable and consistent computer I have ever owned, and my work PC, which recently attempted to update outlook, and in the process fucked my hard drive beyond recovery.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#69

Post by mises » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

charlesdaniels wrote: post #34

owenwil wrote: post #2

I see a lot of angry posts like this, but fail to understand how it's reflected in reality in 2019—I agree that Windows 10 was a little messy at launch, but it's come a long way from where many of these complaints seem to stem from. Yeah, Windows has a bad rap, but in the last 2-4 years has come leaps and bounds from where it was—implementing great, thoughtfully designed features on a regular basis, for free. With WS…

As someone who has used Linux (with a few brief stints into macOS and BSD) for quite some time (since about 2012) coming from Windows before that, I don't understand the people who constantly defend Windows in these types of posts... In principle, the feature set that Windows 10 ships could be useful. I don't find it appealing personally, but if it works well for you then that's great. The issue that I have had is th…

I can't figure out why you would need to re-format that often. Perhaps you have some kind of esoteric peripheral with a bad driver? I've never had such issues, even though I tinker with mostly-hidden settings and break things I'm not supposed to. It's not perfect, and I hate the telemetry, but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be.

Re: If you must run Windows 10

#70

Post by jawilson2 » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

owenwil wrote: post #37

hackcasual wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are tired of an OS that by default phones home about actions you do on it, include advertisement in your start area, and regularly push updates to add new features that also break existing software.

The 'phones home' argument doesn't really add up—there's plenty of control over this at this point, and every OS is calling home, macOS included, to some degree. The advertisements thing happens out of the box, and is trivial to remove (if my memory is correct, Safari harasses you about being the default browser, too, if you try to change it). The updates to add features thing.... isn't an issue for me, but YMMV.

There a lot of whataboutisms here.

MS shouldn't do phone home, OSX shouldn't do it, and I'm pretty sure my work CentOS doesn't do it. This should be the default, and you should have to opt in, preferably for some period, for it to happen.

For ads, this should be disabled by default, and the user should be compensated in some way for receiving ads on an OS they paid for. Also, these and Candy Crush seem to be re-enabled after some updates.