No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers • Hacker News Board

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#231

Post by trhway » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

lonelappde wrote: post #206

Scoundreller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moreover, for me to send any parcel (even very small ones, like 2 oz.) outside the US costs a small fortune these days, again because I'm subsidizing the Chinese shippers. International shipping was expensive before China flooded the market b2c. If you sent a pkg to China, the US would only have to drop it off in China, the last mile delivery cost is mostly up to China. The actual air freight cost to USPS is about…

A long time ago, USPS signed an insane sweetheart deal for free shipping from China, thinking that it would help US companies ship to China. But for many reasons (labor laws, environmental laws, go subsidies) outsidee of shipping costs, US-China post package shipping (not heavy industry whatever), is absolutely massively imbalanced. Chinese shippers massive privilege over US domestic shippers (shipping to ISo custome…

>despite shipping from China being obviously more expensive in real world resources.

3 weeks container shipping on a super container ship vs. even cheapest truck shipping ?

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#232

Post by lonelappde » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #231

lonelappde wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long time ago, USPS signed an insane sweetheart deal for free shipping from China, thinking that it would help US companies ship to China. But for many reasons (labor laws, environmental laws, go subsidies) outsidee of shipping costs, US-China post package shipping (not heavy industry whatever), is absolutely massively imbalanced. Chinese shippers massive privilege over US domestic shippers (shipping to ISo custome…

>despite shipping from China being obviously more expensive in real world resources. 3 weeks container shipping on a super container ship vs. even cheapest truck shipping ?

The Chinese shippment also has to use a truck to get from Port.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#233

Post by adventured » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

lonelappde wrote: post #225

adventured wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a UN-based forced rate subsidy for developing nations that China still benefits from. "According to the U.S. Postal Service, it costs around $20 to mail a small parcel weighing 4.4 pounds from one U.S. state to another, yet mailing the same package from China only costs about $5." "The Universal Postal Union, a United Nations agency that sets postal rates among its 192-member countries, dictates USPS's artificia…

In what sense can the UN "force" anything? The article says that Trump is moving to pull out of or renegotiate the UPU agreement, which at worst is a Presidential choice, and it's not even clear to me why USPS can't do it unilaterally.

> In what sense can the UN "force" anything?

Are we going to pretend the UN and UPU have zero power to dictate global shipping rates? Because that's exactly what they do.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#234

Post by Scoundreller » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #174

Scoundreller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moreover, for me to send any parcel (even very small ones, like 2 oz.) outside the US costs a small fortune these days, again because I'm subsidizing the Chinese shippers. International shipping was expensive before China flooded the market b2c. If you sent a pkg to China, the US would only have to drop it off in China, the last mile delivery cost is mostly up to China. The actual air freight cost to USPS is about…

"using international shipping as a profit centre" Canada is truly awful in this respect. In Canada, it might cost around $50 to send a small package to another country (excluding the US, which is a little cheaper). In the US, the same package might cost a little over $10. I'm in the US and I occasionally have to ship small light packages to Canada and was always frustrated when it cost me $10, 3x as much to ship a fe…

There’s a cottage industry of companies in big cities that will truck your US-bound package to the US for $1 each and deposit it into USPS.

Eg: chitchats express.

Sometimes Canadians do this for shipments to Canada because it can be a lot cheaper.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#235

Post by Scoundreller » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #231

lonelappde wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long time ago, USPS signed an insane sweetheart deal for free shipping from China, thinking that it would help US companies ship to China. But for many reasons (labor laws, environmental laws, go subsidies) outsidee of shipping costs, US-China post package shipping (not heavy industry whatever), is absolutely massively imbalanced. Chinese shippers massive privilege over US domestic shippers (shipping to ISo custome…

>despite shipping from China being obviously more expensive in real world resources. 3 weeks container shipping on a super container ship vs. even cheapest truck shipping ?

A lot of it is actually airmail.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#236

Post by minikites » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

delfinom wrote: post #140

jrockway wrote: post #126

The impression I get from that thread is that the dream here is now Americans can do what they do best, sit in the middle of transactions and collect rent. Previously, you could go to a Chinese website and have the Chinese factory send you a widget directly to your door. Now that will be too expensive, but hey we have a solution! An American will order a bunch of widgets in bulk, ship them over in a cargo ship, come…

Pretty much. I absolutely fucking hate Amazon now. It's full of white label products. You can tell the seller does no real safety testing of any kind from their broad array of random shit. You can't even trust the kitchen equipment for chance they made the steel with lead or the silicone is mixed with something toxic, etc. Completely unregulated market place of stupid. And this is on top of Amazon's counterfeit probl…

>I'm surprised nobody has died yet from counterfeit or substandard automotive goods of all things.

I've been told this will self-regulate in a truly free market.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#237

Post by La1n » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

williamDafoe wrote: post #132

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of dollars per unit weight moved, yes. They are not only moving massive amounts of cargo with low drag, they're also relatively lightweight compared to the product being moved. Also, there's no maintenance cost to keeping a flat path across the Pacific like there is in keeping roads free of potholes. In terms of environmental damage, not at all. Container ships burn some of the nastiest, most sulphrous and d…

A lot of Chinese ships burn spent USA motor oil (illegal to burn in the USA) on the way home, ergo, free trip home! And the entire smoke plume lands in the USA . .

Do you have a source for that, I can't seem to find a reliable one

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#238

Post by Scoundreller » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

lonelappde wrote: post #206

Scoundreller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moreover, for me to send any parcel (even very small ones, like 2 oz.) outside the US costs a small fortune these days, again because I'm subsidizing the Chinese shippers. International shipping was expensive before China flooded the market b2c. If you sent a pkg to China, the US would only have to drop it off in China, the last mile delivery cost is mostly up to China. The actual air freight cost to USPS is about…

A long time ago, USPS signed an insane sweetheart deal for free shipping from China, thinking that it would help US companies ship to China. But for many reasons (labor laws, environmental laws, go subsidies) outsidee of shipping costs, US-China post package shipping (not heavy industry whatever), is absolutely massively imbalanced. Chinese shippers massive privilege over US domestic shippers (shipping to ISo custome…

The USPS signed an agreement for ePacket, but most of the packages are being shipped under UPU rules that most countries in the world are signatories to.

USPS fares better under ePacket packages than the UPU tarifed packages.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#239

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #134

ComputerGuru wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue was in mistaking China for a developing country for so long. It’s different from western countries, but not undeveloped. Its size, population, culture, heritage, and history all play a role in how the ethnocentric West misinterpreted it.

I'm not sure that "mistaking" is the right word. For years the United States has protested the cheap UPU rates that China gets. But the UPU still classifies it as a "developing" nation. China is the world's second-largest economy. It doesn't need or deserve the artificially cheap rates anymore. China shouldn't pay less to send packages overseas than countries in Africa. By leaving the UPU, the United States can set c…

When does China claim to be a developed nation?

Also, is there any reasonable metric by which China is not a developing economy?

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#240

Post by jrockway » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

burnte wrote: post #216

delfinom wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much. I absolutely fucking hate Amazon now. It's full of white label products. You can tell the seller does no real safety testing of any kind from their broad array of random shit. You can't even trust the kitchen equipment for chance they made the steel with lead or the silicone is mixed with something toxic, etc. Completely unregulated market place of stupid. And this is on top of Amazon's counterfeit probl…

> I absolutely fucking hate Amazon now. It's full of white label products. So is Walmart and Dollar General. It's always been the customer's responsibility to buy the product they want, not the store's. Don't want counterfeit crap? Don't buy IFONE FROM APPEL in the listings. I don't know when the last time I got counterfeit crap from amazon is because I look at what I buy before I buy it.

White labelling and counterfeiting are two different things.

White labelling is just rebranding; I go to Home Depot and buy some screws, print out a label that says "jrockway's miracle fasteners", slap it on top of Home Depot's label, and sell them to you, that's white labeling.

Counterfeiting is when you inject seemingly-identical goods into the supply chain. You mix up some soap and blue dye in your bathtub, pour it into some recycled Tide bottles, and ship them off to Amazon's warehouse as "Tide brand laundry detergent". Now you are selling them to customers seeking a genuine product, but they're not getting the real thing.

White-labelling is a perfectly legitimate thing. Counterfeiting is a crime.

To be extra clear, your "I look at things on Amazon before I buy them" technique is exactly the sort of procedure that won't protect you from counterfeiting. The counterfeiters already fooled Amazon. Amazon thinks they're selling you genuine merchandise. But they're not. That's what upsets people.