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Asset minification with Elm (2018)

elm-lang.org

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Re: Asset minification with Elm (2018)

#3

Post by MichaelGlass »

Semiapies wrote: post #2

Describing this as just "minification" downplays the compiler improvements, here.

Agreed.

But ... minification is totally relatable and "better error messages" is less-so. The problem with benchmarks is they over-emphasize things that are measurable. Honestly, I don't care as much about binary size as I do about, e.g. maintainability. But the latter is harder to quantify.

It's not Elm's fault they have to play that game. People search for, "fastest javascript framework" when maybe that's not what they actually want. Maybe all they want is a good friend.

Re: Asset minification with Elm (2018)

#5

Post by bastawhiz »

I don't want to downplay Elm's accomplishments here, but I really disagree with the "RealWorld" example here. Does a 29kb asset make a meaningful difference compared to a 100kb asset? Especially if the framework is a fixed chunk of that, the space savings as the project grows in size is not incredibly meaningful in the grand scheme of things. 50kb of excess code on my page due to missed optimizations isn't going to keep me up at night.

A more meaningful comparison would be "we ported these actual production apps to Elm and here's the difference." Finding comparisons between languages like Elm and JS often feels like an exercise in microoptimization: I don't care if it can update the DOM 20% faster if React or Angular already does it within 16ms, or if the download time for my bundle is reduced by 50% if it already loads in 200ms for my 95th percentile. What's going to get me interested in tools like Elm are solutions for actual issues that I'm toiling over, like providing better tools for mocking in tests, ways to build custom lint rules that don't involve me becoming a metaprogramming expert, isomorphic rendering without heartache, etc.

Re: Asset minification with Elm (2018)

#6

Post by weavie »

bastawhiz wrote: post #5

I don't want to downplay Elm's accomplishments here, but I really disagree with the "RealWorld" example here. Does a 29kb asset make a meaningful difference compared to a 100kb asset? Especially if the framework is a fixed chunk of that, the space savings as the project grows in size is not incredibly meaningful in the grand scheme of things. 50kb of excess code on my page due to missed optimizations isn't going to k…

Microoptimizations performed by someone else is only really a problem if they sacrifice something else to acheive them. So if it meant that writing Elm code was a horrendous buggy experience in order to achieve that extra 50kb, then sure that's a problem.

But when its added on top of a really pleasant development experience then you don't really need to to think about it too much. All it really is saying is that you aren't paying for it with extra code bloat.. Which is a great thing!

Re: Asset minification with Elm (2018)

#8

Post by bastawhiz »

weavie wrote: post #6
bastawhiz wrote: post #5

I don't want to downplay Elm's accomplishments here, but I really disagree with the "RealWorld" example here. Does a 29kb asset make a meaningful difference compared to a 100kb asset? Especially if the framework is a fixed chunk of that, the space savings as the project grows in size is not incredibly meaningful in the grand scheme of things. 50kb of excess code on my page due to missed optimizations isn't going to k…

Microoptimizations performed by someone else is only really a problem if they sacrifice something else to acheive them. So if it meant that writing Elm code was a horrendous buggy experience in order to achieve that extra 50kb, then sure that's a problem. But when its added on top of a really pleasant development experience then you don't really need to to think about it too much. All it really is saying is that you…

I don't disagree that it's a net positive. My point is that aside from being a post about the technical accomplishments of Elm, it does little to sell me on changing my tools and language. I don't doubt that Elm is pleasant to work with, but I find React really pleasant to work with.

If the goal is to convince me to learn a new language for the weekend and play with it, telling me how I can save 50kb isn't huge motivation. Seeing actual examples of real world benefits are compelling for me, not artificial samples.

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