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Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

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Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#51

Post by baroffoos »

jandrese wrote: post #31
jdnenej wrote: post #27

This is becoming more and more of a problem as everything becomes more complex. I remember when I was a child my dad repaired the power switch on the vacume cleaner by going to the local electrical store and buying the exact same switch. Now every single device has its own custom part and the switch isn't just connecting 2 wires, it's contacting a main board telling it the button has been pressed triggering the power…

The good news is you can get almost anything on the Internet. I've found so many weird parts from shady eBay sellers that worked perfectly in the end. Other times I've had to order a similar part off of Mouser and hack it to make it fit, with varying levels of success.

This is less of an option when hardware makers fuse everything in to a single board so when one thing breaks you need a new main board which costs as much as the whole device.

I have had a surprising amount of luck with some items though. Managed to replace the shoulder buttons on my 3ds by finding a replica of the button + ribbon cable + connector used.

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#52

Post by johnbatch »

kube-system wrote: post #12
ohnocentral wrote: post #2

"There are unique challenges that come with working on these cars. You might have to rebuild a circuit board one day, and fabricate a new hood the next day. Actually, if any body parts are damaged, you'll have to fabricate them. Tesla doesn't sell parts to anyone, so Medlock has taken to fashioning new panels out of carbon fiber himself. " Didn't expect to see circuit board rebuilding until ~2023 (15y is my recollect…

I thought federal law required mass market vehicle manufacturers to make parts available for 10 years? Am I mistaken or did Tesla manufacture these under some low-volume exception?

There is a California law requiring consumer electronics And appliances (not cars) to have parts for 7 years.

CIVIL CODE SECTION 1792-1795.8

(b) Every manufacturer making an express warranty with respect to an electronic or appliance product described in subdivision (h), (i), (j), or (k) of Section 9801 of the Business and Professions Code, with a wholesale price to the retailer of one hundred dollars ($100) or more, shall make available to service and repair facilities sufficient service literature and functional parts to effect the repair of a product for at least seven years after the date a product model or type was manufactured, regardless of whether the seven-year period exceeds the warranty period for the product

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#53

Post by droithomme »

jacques_chester wrote: post #35
wmf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like the present; every part they manufacture goes into a new Tesla while owners wait weeks for replacement parts.

This is the key: Tesla's goal is increasing new-car production. Diverting intermediate assemblies into spare parts inventories directly competes with that goal. If Tesla had spare manufacturing capacity this wouldn't be as pressing. As they bring more online it would presumably ease, though with lag while the backlog of demand is drained.

Sounds like a brillant plan. Do you feel that knowledge of total lack of serviceability for cars more than a few years old might discourage more that a modicum of potential new buyers. And if so would it make financial sense to hire 50¢ armies to annihilate any attempts to share such information online and discredit its promulgators.

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#54

Post by chris11 »

baroffoos wrote: post #47
chris11 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard Tesla advertising themselves as a simpler car, by comparing the number of moving parts between a Tesla and an ICE car. That should've made part shortages less likely.

Its simpler in terms of moving parts sure, but the actual complexity of what is going on is through the roof. A physical door handle may have more moving parts than a touch panel but if you pull apart a door handle you can quite quickly work out how it works and how it could be replicated. Good luck pulling apart a bunch of micro controllers trying to work out the communication protocols and code required to respond…

That's a good point. I guess that just comes along with trying to design an entire car yourself. I was thinking more about the normal major repair points for the car, like the powertrain. But I guess all the smaller repairs needed on a car become more frustrating when you need to go through Tesla to fix it.

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#55

Post by userbinator »

jandrese wrote: post #39
paulddraper wrote: post #7

Wow. I had a '91 Saturn sedan until 2015. Despite my model being out of production for decades, and Saturn having closed up shop for years, I could still find aftermarket auto parts. How common of a problem is this? Any other manufactures/models notorious for poor part availability?

Most of the parts on your car are just GM parts. Auto manufacturers don't design a new pump/bearing/condenser/etc... for every make and model of their vehicles, they take one off of the shelf. When it breaks you can find a replacement because there are dozens or hundreds of cars that used the exact same part and supplying one supplies them all. Even when the manufacturer stops making that part (because the last car t…

GM and the Big Three in general have a huge aftermarket and good parts availability likely due to the prevalence of the modding/tuning culture at the peak of the "car era" (1950s-70s). In fact you can still buy all the parts for the running gear of the stereotypical American car (V8, 3-speed auto/4-speed manual, RWD, IFS) entirely from the aftermarket, and they'll perform just as well if not better than the original parts.

Auto manufacturers don't design a new pump/bearing/condenser/etc... for every make and model of their vehicles, they take one off of the shelf.

...unless it's a German car. Or so the stories go...

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#56

Post by Scoundreller »

pvg wrote: post #48
burke wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual parts are not readily available from either manufacturer.

You can't get 'individual parts' for most consumer electronics. They don't require the sort of maintenance a car does, as this user's story about selling an 8 year old laptop and buying a 4 year old laptop with the proceeds illustrates.

Apple keeps a much tighter grip on their supply chains than the rest.

If you're willing to search around on Ebay/AliExpress, you usually can get individual parts: either gray market from a service centre, 2nd shift or overruns. The big exception's for Apple parts.

Contrast with Sears: Here's 250+ parts available for each fridge they distribute, shipped to you direct, with manuals:

https://www.searspartsdirect.com/category/1234589/refrigerat...

I bought repair parts for my parents' 20 year old garage door opener from them. PSA: open it up and grease the nylon gears every decade so they don't turn into a snowmaker.

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#57

Post by tedd4u »

droithomme wrote: post #14

That they won't service them or supply parts shows the future for all Tesla owners. We need legislative reform that requires any companies selling products in US jurisdiction put enough parts and cash in escrow to guarantee for a reasonable time period the ability to service anything that costs more than $500.

As good as that sounds for consumers I think the cost would mean we would see less innovation. And it would be harder for small companies to bring products to market. Caveat emptor.

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#58

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

leesalminen wrote: post #50

My wife has a 2020 Toyota Corolla. Less than 3 months old and it’s got a bad crack in the windshield. Toyota says a replacement is 6 months out and there are 800 on backorder in North America right now. So, it’s not just Tesla. Can happen to any manufacturer.

Can’t you just go to one of the dozens of windshield replacement businesses in your area? You drive it there and they plop in a new windshield for very reasonable rates. They will often even come to you to fix it.

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#59

Post by pvg »

Scoundreller wrote: post #56
pvg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't get 'individual parts' for most consumer electronics. They don't require the sort of maintenance a car does, as this user's story about selling an 8 year old laptop and buying a 4 year old laptop with the proceeds illustrates.

Apple keeps a much tighter grip on their supply chains than the rest. If you're willing to search around on Ebay/AliExpress, you usually can get individual parts: either gray market from a service centre, 2nd shift or overruns. The big exception's for Apple parts. Contrast with Sears: Here's 250+ parts available for each fridge they distribute, shipped to you direct, with manuals: https://www.searspartsdirect.com/cat…

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact most consumer electronics are not user-serviceable by design and are also designed in a way that most of them don't require service in their useful lifetime. That's the 'philosophy' at play here, if we can call it that.

The other thing is making a small-run weird and pricey car and then mostly ditching it as a supported product. Putting aside any value judgements about the practice of making and selling products in either of those ways, I still don't see any 'philosophical' connection to Apple or really, you know, anyone else not-making bespoke custom products.

Re: Keeping Tesla Roadsters Alive Is Serious Work

#60

Post by userbinator »

mbreese wrote: post #22
pmorici wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty big difference between a model that sells 2,500 total units and one that sells millions over 2 decades. A better comparison would be to look at what parts availability is on a limited run sports car.

Not only the limited run nature, but part of this has also got to be the big supplier network that is available for other cars. How many custom parts are there on a Tesla Roadster compared to other cars? There are large supplier networks that can supply many (most? all?) of the internal parts required to build a complete car (sport or otherwise). I’ve got to think that the ratio skews heavily to the side of custom fo…

This is great - until you need to replace that one specialized part and you can’t seem to find it.

...or when that multifunction part fails and renders much of the car inoperable.

Odd that that article about the Superbottle mentions "increased modularity" as an advantage, when it clearly decreases modularity to integrate so many functions into one monolithic part.

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