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Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

wsj.com

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Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#51

Post by Baeocystin »

patientplatypus wrote: post #15
jandrese wrote: post #2

It is interesting that support for nationalism is still popular with the older generations alongside their support for diversity, even after nationalism has been co-opted by groups hostile to diversity. The younger generations see "I support the USA" as "I support the policies of the current administration", simply because that's how said supporters often identify themselves. I think if you asked the younger generati…

I’m on the younger side of the millennial group. Freedom and democracy are wonderful in theory but the US has been run by plutocrats since it’s inception. It was literally built on slavery and black people have, today, 10% of the wealth of white people. And you can do anything you want in this wonderful society, so long as you can afford it. And that’s only one group getting screwed over - for 50 years the median pur…

I'm someone who spent their childhood in a newly Communist state.

We got to watch anyone with an education have everything they had stolen, then rewarded with either a bullet to the head or strict fealty to the party line.

Oddly enough, the new commissars seemed quite comfortable in the homes of those they killed.

America, warts and all, has a superior system. That doesn't mean there aren't real problems here. It just means that you haven't experienced a true void of civil law. I do not think you would care for it much.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#52

Post by mrkstu »

cwperkins wrote: post #10
jandrese wrote: post #2

It is interesting that support for nationalism is still popular with the older generations alongside their support for diversity, even after nationalism has been co-opted by groups hostile to diversity. The younger generations see "I support the USA" as "I support the policies of the current administration", simply because that's how said supporters often identify themselves. I think if you asked the younger generati…

With all due respect, I did not vote for the president but now find myself more aligned with the Republicans than any 2020 Democrat. Its a smear that they are anti-Diversity. A lot of the young men I know feel disenfranchised in a system that does not value them even though they are not in any positions of power. All are sympathetic to historical injustices and see the President doing things like First Step Act and O…

The problem is that the President cultivates groups that are nativist. Any good that some of his policies may do will not earn him any credibility if he wipes it away by minimizing the problematic nature of those that seek to use his voice as an amplification for their narratives.

Unfortunately Trump seem incapable of cutting loose anyone who is willing to praise him unrestrainedly. So he ends up endorsing groups directly or indirectly over Twitter via re-tweet that are toxic or praising Putin/Kim Jong Un since they restrict their criticism to the USA as a country rather than him personally.

I'm a lifelong Republican, but voted 3rd party last election and set to again, despite agreeing with many actual policy positions this admin takes. I (and many others) can't be party to his antics as they will smear the whole conservative world view for a generation with the slime of his self-interest.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#53

Post by jdsully »

thereare5lights wrote: post #35
jdsully wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you mentioned Japan. All the travel videos I see warn you the police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious (so you better answer when they ask!). It doesn’t sound like a great place for civil liberties.

> police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious That literally happens in the US as well.

Police cannot bring you to the police station for merely being suspicious. The standard is much higher for an arrest.

They are allowed to pat down the outside of your pockets under the argument they need to be aware of weapons. I do agree this is heavily abused with stop & frisk which frankly shouldn't be legal if the police initiate the contact. But they cannot search inside without your permission.

As far as legal systems go, if the CEO of Nissan was held 3 weeks without charge in Japan what hope does the average person have?

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#54

Post by devoply »

monkeyodeath wrote: post #49

Religion, at least the dominant Evangelical Christian kind, has gotten increasingly politicized, to the point where religious == conservative (note I'm using JS-style "truthy" here, I know that this isn't a blanket case). So it's not surprising that young Americans, who are generally liberal, don't consider themselves religious. And as for having kids? Not only is it more expensive and stressful than ever before, but…

Religion was always political it's just a modern slight of hand to label the prevailing ideology secular and dis-empower the clergy. Does not seem to have worked very long though. I think we'll see more political moves by religion and those who choose to embrace it moving forward.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#55

Post by cwperkins »

metalliqaz wrote: post #38
cwperkins wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, I did not vote for the president but now find myself more aligned with the Republicans than any 2020 Democrat. Its a smear that they are anti-Diversity. A lot of the young men I know feel disenfranchised in a system that does not value them even though they are not in any positions of power. All are sympathetic to historical injustices and see the President doing things like First Step Act and O…

If you think that the way the president primarily is affecting minority groups is via First Step Act and Opportunity Zones, then you are either confused or willfully ignorant. His "me first" M.O. is based on stoking racial grievances and animosity in his base. His actual economic policies align exactly with the "swamp": funnel money to the wealthy. It sounds to me, frankly, that you are simply seeing what you want to…

I'd love to engage in any debate because ultimately I think that having diverse viewpoints ultimately leads to the most ideal solution. And not just Diversity of background, but diversity of bias is also important. I think the single most important thing being accomplished at the moment is the rebuilding of the middle class through bringing manufacturing back. It hasn't happened on a large scale yet, but I'm optimistic that the next year will see a big uptick. Building the middle class will be the best way to close the racial wealth gap. I also live in an urban area in a gentrifying neighborhood and it looks like some millenials are opting to settle. I think this is great for integration as well as minorities moving to the suburbs. I also saw research recently that has shown that gentrification has led to incomes in the area increasing at rates that beat the national average which is also promising.

EDIT: Why was this comment downvoted without a reply? I want to spark a discussion.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#56

Post by asdf21 »

gourabmi wrote: post #45
asdf21 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because Nationalism is antithetical to the ideas of Liberty and Democracy. What makes you think that, exactly?

Here is some food for thought on that subject http://tagoreweb.in/Render/ShowContent.aspx?ct=Essays&bi=72E...

From your link:

>And I feel tempted to put the same question to our American critics with a slight modification, 'What have you done with the Red Indian and the Negro?' For you have not got over your attitude of caste toward them. You have used violent methods to keep aloof from other races, but until you have solved the question here in America, you have no right to question India.

As far as I know, there are zero laws that are prejudiced towards native Americans or POC and haven't been in decades..

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#57

Post by devoply »

i_am_nomad wrote: post #36
rco8786 wrote: post #14

33 here - Never cared much for religion..they look, act, feel like cults but there's an approved list of these cults apparently. Having a kid changed my life for the better but I was probably in the "not so important" boat before that happened. The big one for me is patriotism. When I was younger I was quite conservative, very pro-USA, refused to believe that any country could possibly do anything better than the way…

You can love your country without considering it to be perfect. In fact, the best kind of patriotism is the “if wrong, then make right” type. That being said, I do believe there are some special aspects to American culture which we should be proud of, and which attract immigrants from around the world.

Less corruption and more job opportunity / money I think sums it up for most people. Maybe rights and freedoms being a peripheral concern but for most people their countries of origins are free enough in that they know how to act not to get into trouble. Outside of that I don't think America has much of a culture.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#58

Post by [deleted] »

rubicon33 wrote: post #6

I can tell you why "patriotism, religion and having children" have never been values for me (32 yr old)... Specifically, two are very closely related: Religion - I don't buy it. I never have, even from a young age. The idea of a mystical all powerful being floating in the sky watching us has always seemed absurd. And frankly, science has really done a number on my ability to believe in traditional religions. Do I bel…

[deleted]

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#59

Post by inimino »

julienreszka wrote: post #4

"WSJ/NBC News telephone poll conducted of 1,000 adults from Aug. 10–14; margin of error +/- 3.1 percentage points" This is all I need to know that this study doesn't have any worth. The required sample size for statistical significance is at least 8 times larger than this.

> This is all I need to know

Perhaps you should update your understanding of how polls work and are to be interpreted... if you think you understand statistics better than the WSJ, consider that you might be mistaken.

Re: Americans Have Shifted Dramatically on What Values Matter Most

#60

Post by malvosenior »

save_ferris wrote: post #42
cwperkins wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, I did not vote for the president but now find myself more aligned with the Republicans than any 2020 Democrat. Its a smear that they are anti-Diversity. A lot of the young men I know feel disenfranchised in a system that does not value them even though they are not in any positions of power. All are sympathetic to historical injustices and see the President doing things like First Step Act and O…

> Its a smear that they are anti-diversity. No it's not. Many prominent figures in the GOP have courted openly racist views over the years. Some highlights: Rep Steve King, who has a very long history of espousing racist views, openly questioned why "White Nationalism" is now an offensive term.[0] Do you believe that the concept of white nationalism or any of its ancillary movements to be offensive? Deceased GOP stra…

There's plenty of racism to go around in all major political parties. "Super-predators" anyone?

> efforts to take voting strength away from voters of color by implementing a citizenship question on the 2020 census.

It seems totally rational and fair that people be asked about their citizenship on a census.

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