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Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

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Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#361

Post by yters »

gfodor wrote: post #178
yters wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they should not call it meat anything. They should just create a new thing, so people can appreciate it for what it is, rather than expect meat and get an uncanny valley effect.

This would be a sure fire way to ensure failure of any attempt to transition society off of meat. The framing of impossible meat as meat is very intentional and key to the persuasion/marketing strategy towards transitioning meat eaters to it. If you think of it as a vegetarian option, not “meat that doesn’t hurt animals”, you will see less people choosing it because you are making it less appealing to them, since peo…

Exactly, this is the real reason for the name. It's not marketing. It is social manipulation of the 1984 newspeak variety.

But, do all these anti-meat people not care about all the cows and chickens that got to exist because people love eating their tasty flesh?

Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#362

Post by Djvacto »

sudosteph wrote: post #325
wil421 wrote: post #133

Why do American (and presumably westerners) vegetarians want to replace meat? I hated vegan and vegetarian food for song long until I ate meat free Indian food. It was always the meat replacements like veggie patties and tofurkey type products that turned me away. Indian food doesn’t have some weird mystery replacement I find on almost every vegan or veggie dish. I had a conversation with and Indian colleague who liv…

Because meat-products are inseperable from our food culture in many places. I'm from NC, so to me "BBQ" means something very specific and that meaning is a point of cultural pride. We like to trash talk our neighbors based on the sauce they use (eastern NC is vinegar-base, Western is ketchup-base, and South Carolina is mustard-based) but we still all agree that the meat is pulled or chopped pork. In Texas and Kansas…

I can't wait for more Carolina BBQ vegan options. Fiction Kitchen's is good, though more chopped than pulled, while my preference is the latter. Still amazing though!

Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#363

Post by nightski »

Djvacto wrote: post #195
nightski wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No doubt. But until we quantify it throwing out baseless assumptions is ridiculous either way. It can't just be said "Beyond Meat" is better for the environment without any numbers or data to back that up.

There have been studies. Here is one done by the University of Michigan (I believe specifically about Beyond, since they commissioned the research or something like that). http://css.umich.edu/publication/beyond-meats-beyond-burger-... It's been a while, but I remember findings signalling something like 30% less emissions?

Yea I saw that one, and I agree it's a good starting point and far better than nothing. The results are interesting, although it should be noted it was directly commissioned by Beyond Meat themselves.

There are however a lot of assumptions in that study. For example, a cow is not 100% 1/4 lb beef patties. So how do you go about distributing emissions that relate directly to the beef patty vs. those for steaks, brisket, or numerous other cuts? Since beyond meat does not currently provide substitues for those. They use an "economic model" which isn't entirely clear to me.

Or the lighting thing. They make all these assumptions about light energy consumption based on lumens and size of facilities - but there is no justification of the accuracy of these assumptions. Also how much of that energy is coming from renewable sources? It could favor either way but without figuring this out it makes a lot of it questionable.

There are other assumptions in there that raise questions and I think a lot more study needs to be done (ideally not funded by either industry).

Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#364

Post by OJFord »

anonymouswacker wrote: post #256
bad_user wrote: post #223

I think the fake meat movement will go the way of Margarine. Initially it's celebrated as a feat of engineering and as the healthy alternative to meat. After about 10 to 20 years however, we'll see cancer and heart disease rates going up. And then the billions of dollars spent in health care will pile up, but nobody will readily admit it, because the fuck up will be even bigger than with Margarine. After all, Margari…

The fake meat movement is just a cash grab for those who want to eat like crap but feel good about themselves. Looking at the ingredients list, it's pretty obvious that cancer/heart disease will go up. I've already got a long-term Put Option on $BYND because not even the CEO or big celebrity investors believe it is a good long-term bet -- cashing out at its peak a few weeks back. Given the relative ease of spreading…

> I've already got a long-term Put Option on $BYND

What's long-term? I haven't accepted the necessary terms anywhere to see the options (excuse the pun) - but whenever I've seen others' elsewhere the term's not long enough that I'm comfortable enough with it to be interested.

Like I might think 'X is over-valued, that won't last', but I could never confidently say how many Y months it will last.

Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#365

Post by tptacek »

sametmax wrote: post #323
tptacek wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you make a clearer, better-cited case for "low cost chains serve meat that could barely even be called meat"? KFC serves (primarily) whole muscle chicken†, and the general US appetite for "dark meat" chicken is so low that we've been accused of "dumping" it on other countries and messing up their markets --- KFC seems to have no trouble sourcing its inputs effectively. KFC's suppliers include all the major chicke…

Just anecdotal, but I was once chatting on a plane with a guy working as a meat buyer for a major dog food brand. He told me his work was to negotiate the cheapest thing that would pass legally as meat as possible, in the biggest quantity as possible. He then mentioned in passing that his toughest competition was Mc Donald's.

McDonalds is the toughest competition for literally anyone in the US that buys beef.

Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#367

Post by tptacek »

mackey wrote: post #327
icxa wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I am happy to say I am happy for their recent changes, this certainly wasn’t the case a few years ago when I wrote them off, and even more not the case 10 years ago when I was still in the industry. I think it should be promoted as an example that consumer pressure and expectations can cause companies to change for the better. I will say I remain skeptical on exactly how they can go from the ammonia wash + chemi…

They haven't used ammonia wash or "lean beef trimmings" since around 2011.

The ammonia is a bad scene, but the idea of using TG to repurpose "trimmings" isn't something we should be demonizing; if you're going to kill animals to feed people, you should be maximizing the yield (of muscle protein, that is). This is just an extension of the idea that if you're going to eat pork chops, you shouldn't be grossed out by the idea of eating offal; however ecologically irresponsible it is to eat meat at all, it must be more irresponsible to waste it because it squicks you out to eat anything but a loin chop.

(TG'd meat was a faddish fine dining trend a few years back, and it's pretty neat; for instance, you can make a solid, ribeye-like slab of skirt steak by "gluing" layers of skirt together, which is pretty delicious. It's also a technique that's been used in sausagemaking for a long time.)

Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#368

Post by atomwaffel »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #286
robin_reala wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…in the US. They’ve been doing vegetarian options in Europe for at least 20 years.

Not where I am. Now, I've only been to a McDonald's once since I moved here (Norway), but if I didn't eat fish, I'd have nothing but fries.

They do offer three vegetarian burgers (apparently variations on the same patty), vegan nuggets, and a vegan salad.[1] It’s not as good as the vegan burger they have in Sweden, but it’s a start.

[1] https://www.mcdonalds.com/no/nb-no/meny/vegetar.html

Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#369

Post by losvedir »

It's odd. Most of my friends are aboard the "eat real food, not too much, mostly plants" train, and generally avoid highly processed stuff in favor of simple ingredients. But they make an exception for this weird industrial concoction.

I, personally, don't like it because my wife has allergy issues with legumes, and they're putting soy and pea protein in _everything_ now (e.g. was surprised to see it in some random almond milk the other day). I know it's a niche concern and it's on us to watch out for, but it's annoying and sort of surprising where it all is now.

I like meat. I don't eat it in large quantities or too often, and I don't think I'll ever go for this product. If I want meat, I'll have it like we've evolved to have it over millenia. YMMV.

Re: Beyond Meat and KFC partner to test fried plant-based ‘chicken’

#370

Post by chipotle_coyote »

wolco wrote: post #328
tptacek wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean they brine it? Like home cooks have been urged to do by Cooks Illustrated for 20 years?

Not familiar with the advice given in Cooks Illustrated over the last 20 years is it related to sport's illustrated where they show you cooks wearing swimsuits. Brining if you can call it that is only step 2. Here's the steps they use to prepare. https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-kfc-actually-makes-their-fri... Are those the steps Cooking illustrated gave you? Are you cooking your own kfc at home now? You seem like the…

So, from the very first paragraph of the article you linked to: "It's basically like how your grandma would do it—except they use an infernal magic machine called a 'pressure frier.'"

Thanks! I feel a lot better about KFC chicken now!

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