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Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

daringfireball.net

31–40 of 49 posts

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#31

I think the cold truth is that in the OS X era, Apple's designers have been increasingly favoring eye candy over usability and consistency. OS X certainly looks better than just about any other OS I've seen, but other things like Fitt's Law and consistency have taken a back seat.

Do you have any examples of violations of Fitts law in OS X that weren't present in OS9?

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#32
post #9

I must admit I'm not really surprised to see Gruber suddenly claim non-uniform application design is a good thing when everyone starts critizing Apple for 1. inconsistent UIs and 2. bad design. Also note how he completely focuses on the inconsistent UI-issue and completely ignores the part about bad design in the OSX App Store, probably hoping it will go by unnoticed. Really though. Isn't it always this way with Grub…

Apple is obviously following the innovations of web app design here. People use web apps with wildly different designs all the time, and yes, there are some usability issues with that, but when consumer OSes were first being developed some decades ago, HCI researchers assumed that everything had to look exactly the same between applications or users would freak out. The web never had a single HIG, so we found out tha…

People use web apps with wildly different designs all the time because there are no UI standards and there is no basic toolkit. It's a bug, not a feature.

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#33

That screenshot sums up my experience with Twitter nicely: A dozen random thoughts, truncated to fit a certain size, thus requiring investment to decipher, which at the end reveals somebody talking about something that's only really interesting to themselves, and actually makes you feel slightly embarrassed for them. My assumption was that other people were using some form of magic tool that filtered out relevent stu…

On Twitter, you don't follow people who talk about things you're not interested in. It's that simple.

Now, obviously, nobody's 100% interesting all the time. So, yes, there is a "magic tool" to filter out uninteresting things: your brain. You see something that relies on context you're not privy to, you skip over it. It's that simple. You don't read Twitter, you scan it.

Everyone who criticizes Twitter seems to think that people use it to read boring things. No, I don't usually care what the people I'm following had for breakfast - except when Patton Oswalt describes his quick eats on a busy day [1]. Now, you might not find that funny. In which case, you stop following him, or you just furl your brow and keep skimming.

[1] http://twitter.com/#!/pattonoswalt/status/23362445531684864

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#34
post #24

Consistency is still important, especially on the "truck" computers which are much more prone to damaging actions by novice users compared to iOS. Hell, messing with standard interface elements can even mess advanced users up. Opened up Logic or Sound space designer recently? Maybe regular users _are_ getting more used to different looking widgets (eg. All the different kinds of custom buttons on websites) but I don'…

I really agree with this perspective. I think folks get too hung up on the actual appearance vs. the usability. Sometimes I don't like the look when apps recolor standard controls, but I don't find them less usable. Just don't change usability patterns like keyboard shortcuts or the ability for a window to be minimized to the dock.

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you can't claim that Gruber is never critical of Apple. For example, he was one of the first and most persistent critics of the iPhone App Store's submission guidelines until they were amended by Apple. It's true that he rarely criticises Apple's design choices. But I don't think it's because of any sycophantic defence of Apple, but rather because his design aesthetic is very similar to that of the lead designe…

Here's a few links to Gruber criticizing the poor state of the HIG, and Apple's design decisions: http://daringfireball.net/2007/07/hockenberry_hig http://daringfireball.net/2004/10/brushed-metal http://daringfireball.net/2003/05/much_ado_about_click-throu... http://daringfireball.net/2006/08/highly_selective http://daringfireball.net/2003/02/inconsistencies http://daringfireball.net/2004/10/themes http://daringfireb…

That's like 9 articles in as many years. How many did he write in support of them? Not that there's anything wrong with it - just that I don't think I can count his writing about Apple as "objective criticism".

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#36

That screenshot sums up my experience with Twitter nicely: A dozen random thoughts, truncated to fit a certain size, thus requiring investment to decipher, which at the end reveals somebody talking about something that's only really interesting to themselves, and actually makes you feel slightly embarrassed for them. My assumption was that other people were using some form of magic tool that filtered out relevent stu…

On Twitter, you don't follow people who talk about things you're not interested in. It's that simple. Now, obviously, nobody's 100% interesting all the time. So, yes, there is a "magic tool" to filter out uninteresting things: your brain. You see something that relies on context you're not privy to, you skip over it. It's that simple. You don't read Twitter, you scan it. Everyone who criticizes Twitter seems to think…

Was that link an attempt to point out something good on Twitter, or to point out one of the tweets that you have to filter out to get use from it? It took a while to parse, then turned out to be, well, let's say I want my 5 seconds back.

Actually, can anybody here point to a single good Twitter message so that I can see what one looks like?

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#37
post #9

I must admit I'm not really surprised to see Gruber suddenly claim non-uniform application design is a good thing when everyone starts critizing Apple for 1. inconsistent UIs and 2. bad design. Also note how he completely focuses on the inconsistent UI-issue and completely ignores the part about bad design in the OSX App Store, probably hoping it will go by unnoticed. Really though. Isn't it always this way with Grub…

It's very simple to understand - when Apple does something that's inconsistent it is bold pushing-the-envelope. When Android (to pick one of his favourite targets) is inconsistent, it's because a bunch of socially retarded engineers don't know any better and they should be more like Apple.

Really, Grubber is the tech writer equivalent of Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin - he's got so much vested in his ideology, he's gonna push it as hard as possible no matter how much mental gymnastics are needed. Amusing, but ultimately worthless.

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#38
post #9

I must admit I'm not really surprised to see Gruber suddenly claim non-uniform application design is a good thing when everyone starts critizing Apple for 1. inconsistent UIs and 2. bad design. Also note how he completely focuses on the inconsistent UI-issue and completely ignores the part about bad design in the OSX App Store, probably hoping it will go by unnoticed. Really though. Isn't it always this way with Grub…

It's very simple to understand - when Apple does something that's inconsistent it is bold pushing-the-envelope. When Android (to pick one of his favourite targets) is inconsistent, it's because a bunch of socially retarded engineers don't know any better and they should be more like Apple. Really, Grubber is the tech writer equivalent of Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin - he's got so much vested in his ideology, he's g…

No, he isn't.

"One thing I should make clear, given some of the email I’ve gotten this week, is that I’m rooting for Android, big-time." --Gruber

Personally, I'd rather not see his articles here as they never contain any discussion of the topic, rather tons of bitching about the man himself.

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#39
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple to understand - when Apple does something that's inconsistent it is bold pushing-the-envelope. When Android (to pick one of his favourite targets) is inconsistent, it's because a bunch of socially retarded engineers don't know any better and they should be more like Apple. Really, Grubber is the tech writer equivalent of Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin - he's got so much vested in his ideology, he's g…

No, he isn't. "One thing I should make clear, given some of the email I’ve gotten this week, is that I’m rooting for Android, big-time." --Gruber Personally, I'd rather not see his articles here as they never contain any discussion of the topic, rather tons of bitching about the man himself.

Right, funny that how never manifests in his writing, no? I can point to many instances, but here is a fairly recent one: When CBS and a few other networks started banning Google TV from watching content, a lot of people thought that was a bad example of Big Content making decisions for people - ie, why can I watch online TV with my HTPC, but not a specialized HTPC like Google TV? These people criticized the networks for doing that. Grubber's take? The equivalent of a Nelson Ha-Ha. Very insightful and mature of him.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/11/22/google-tv-viacom

This characterizes most of his writing on Android, Google TV, etc etc.

Re: Uniformity vs. Individuality in Mac UI Design

#40
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he isn't. "One thing I should make clear, given some of the email I’ve gotten this week, is that I’m rooting for Android, big-time." --Gruber Personally, I'd rather not see his articles here as they never contain any discussion of the topic, rather tons of bitching about the man himself.

Right, funny that how never manifests in his writing, no? I can point to many instances, but here is a fairly recent one: When CBS and a few other networks started banning Google TV from watching content, a lot of people thought that was a bad example of Big Content making decisions for people - ie, why can I watch online TV with my HTPC, but not a specialized HTPC like Google TV? These people criticized the networks…

Right, funny that how never manifests in his writing, no?

that's why i unsubscribed from his rss feed recently. i subscribed a long time ago because i enjoyed reading his commentary on apple-related things, but in the past few months it's been more about how much android sucks.

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