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Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

nytimes.com

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Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#71

Post by gonzo41 »

zarkov99 wrote: post #44
klez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are reasons the draft can be a good idea. When the military is only voluntary you get a military with specific ideas about foreign policy and how you see the enemy, whoever they are. If you introduce the draft you have a more heterogenous military.

Absolutely. A draft would also force Americans of all backgrounds to interact with each other in an environment that builds cohesion. It would also give even the most powerful of Americans skin in the game when it comes to starting wars.

This only works if there isn't an out for folk with bone spurs.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#72

Post by naasking »

ethbro wrote: post #63
jcfrei wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether something is a science or not depends on the methods which are applied - not how much is known about the subject. You could argue that biology is not a science because we don't understand how lots of basic cell functions work.

Exactly. The relevant question for those bemoaning policy implementations of economic theories is, "If not guided by economics, then by what?" Personally, I prefer a discipline which attempts to treat its subject matter scientifically, even if the sum of experimentally proven knowledge is small. Psychology runs into the same difficulties. But with both (or biology, or high-energy physics), I don't hold it over their…

The problem is when our incomplete understanding is used to justify inadequate policy, simply because that's the part of the problem we understand. For instance, deregulating industries because markets are generally more efficient, thus disregarding whether that particular market naturally leads to monopoly. It sometimes leads to regulatory capture and whack-a-mole problem solving that are wholely inadequate.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#73

Post by Agathos »

sprafa wrote: post #25
mrozel wrote: post #23

I get tired of 'blame economist' articles. They're almost always cheap and circumstantial. People often forget that Economics is considered a philosophy and not a science. Sure, its great for coming up with ideas and theories but with this perspective would never put your faith into it like you would STEM.

Absolutely, but politicians use it as if it was scientifically reliable

Politicians ignore economists unless and until they happen to propose something politically convenient.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#74

Post by naasking »

ukj wrote: post #33

Nobody pays attention to Goodman's problem of induction [1]. The truth is that nobody really knows how we ought to arrange society, and which arrangement is likely to work. Everybody is guessing! The moment you arrange the system one way, people game it and your economic model no longer applies. What worked in 1999 needs not work in 2019. Blaming the people you chose to listen to is just another form of avoiding the…

That's why game theory is so important. We definitely need more progress here.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#75

Post by Ozzie_osman »

trentnix wrote: post #61
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor being obese is not a sign of prosperity. There are many countries that are not prosperous at all with obesity problems. Obesity can be due to genetics, lack of access to healthy food or time for recreation, etc. High unemployment doesn't mean much if real wages are dropping for most people and necessities like housing or Healthcare are becoming less affordable even for those employed. I agree that there are peop…

Once upon a time being poor absolutely meant being hungry. No more. That is an utterly remarkable change and is unprecedented in all of human history. And so many wizards of smart assured the people of their time that population growth was going to lead to famine. They were dead-ass wrong.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Thank God we don't have famines, but that's a really low bar to strive for as humanity. People only being able to afford food and a lifestyle that lead to obesity and a whole host of other health problems is still pretty bad, imo.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#76

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

gbacon wrote: post #37
gojomo wrote: post #8

Applebaum tries to finger "elfin libertarian" Milton Friedman as "the most important figure". But the specific policies he attributes to Friedman don't seem so bad: * end the draft, replace with well-paid all-volunteer military * let international exchange rates vary * evaluate regulations based on the cost-to-save-a-life Does Applebaum want to bring back the draft? Put exchange rates back under direct political cont…

Friedman’s worst idea that remains in vigorous implementation was automatic income tax withholding. He poured jet fuel into an engine of runaway state growth but is somehow remembered as a libertarian.

He was an economist during an era where progressivism explosively grew the administrative state and really didn't have any checks. They were enabled by war.

What you're talking about was one of his biggest regrets.

> "It never occurred to me at the time that I was helping to develop machinery that would make possible a government that I would come to criticize severely as too large, too intrusive, too destructive of freedom. Yet, that is precisely what I was doing. [My wife] Rose has repeatedly chided me over the years about the role that I played in making possible the current overgrown government we both criticize so strongly."

[1] : https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/nov/16/post65...

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#77

Post by trentnix »

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #75
trentnix wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once upon a time being poor absolutely meant being hungry. No more. That is an utterly remarkable change and is unprecedented in all of human history. And so many wizards of smart assured the people of their time that population growth was going to lead to famine. They were dead-ass wrong.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Thank God we don't have famines, but that's a really low bar to strive for as humanity. People only being able to afford food and a lifestyle that lead to obesity and a whole host of other health problems is still pretty bad, imo.

Nonsense. It's a really big deal. It's probably the greatest accomplishment in all of human history.

But to concede a point, there's no finish line in the race to improve human health and experience.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#79

Post by spodek »

klez wrote: post #14
gojomo wrote: post #8

Applebaum tries to finger "elfin libertarian" Milton Friedman as "the most important figure". But the specific policies he attributes to Friedman don't seem so bad: * end the draft, replace with well-paid all-volunteer military * let international exchange rates vary * evaluate regulations based on the cost-to-save-a-life Does Applebaum want to bring back the draft? Put exchange rates back under direct political cont…

There are reasons the draft can be a good idea. When the military is only voluntary you get a military with specific ideas about foreign policy and how you see the enemy, whoever they are. If you introduce the draft you have a more heterogenous military.

I propose a civilian service academy and civilian service, which would achieve most of a draft's goals without the military. American infrastructure could use it, among other benefits.

I talk about it in episode 138 in my podcast: http://joshuaspodek.com/guests/rants-raves-monologues-volume....

General McChrystal wrote about it in Time Magazine: Every American Should Serve For One Year https://time.com/4824366/year-national-service-americorps-pe...

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#80

Post by [deleted] »

gojomo wrote: post #8

Applebaum tries to finger "elfin libertarian" Milton Friedman as "the most important figure". But the specific policies he attributes to Friedman don't seem so bad: * end the draft, replace with well-paid all-volunteer military * let international exchange rates vary * evaluate regulations based on the cost-to-save-a-life Does Applebaum want to bring back the draft? Put exchange rates back under direct political cont…

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