The $18B Electric-Car Bubble at Risk of Bursting in China • Hacker News Board

Re: The $18B Electric-Car Bubble at Risk of Bursting in China

#51

Post by Gravityloss » Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 11:51 AM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #40

Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars were a lot simpler back then though.

An EV is much simpler than an ICE car. Modern EVs use what is known as a "skateboard" platform, with the wheels, powertrain and battery forming a flat package. For western manufacturers, this means that they can build anything from a family car to a panel van on essentially the same platform, massively reducing development costs; Chinese startups can just buy a skateboard as a rolling chassis and bolt a body on top.…

It is a fascinating subject. ICE cars also used to separate platform and body. Coach builders might have been completely separate ones from the rolling chassis makers. Monocoque construction made that harder.

Engines might have been one cylinder side valve arrangements. Electric starters only came around after 1910 or so. Compression ratios and temperatures were low. Cars only had a few gears.

Closer to a pull start lawn mower technologically than a Tesla.

Re: The $18B Electric-Car Bubble at Risk of Bursting in China

#52

Post by jp555 » Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 11:29 AM UTC

rasz wrote: post #47

jp555 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An ICE wiring harness costs more than the transmission, and I’ve only heard Tesla getting patents on significant innovations around the wiring harness component. All the other EVs, (including current Teslas) use old wiring harness tech, which has evolved into quite a plate-of-spaghetti of a standard. I’m really looking forward to see what Tesla comes up with on the Y.

>An ICE wiring harness costs more than the transmission Where did you get that peculiar idea? :o Wire harness _replacement_ might be more expensive than transmission swap, but thats due to labor involved in pulling engine out. Average OEM SUV harness set (all, engine/entertainment etc) will cost you OEM transmission? you are looking at $4K.

Ah that's interesting - Elon Musk was talking about the importance of cost and complexity reduction in the wiring harness, and I think in reporting that it was mentioned that the harness costs more than a transmission. Probably another example of the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. :P

Re: The $18B Electric-Car Bubble at Risk of Bursting in China

#53

Post by lbatx » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

rapsey wrote: post #22

lbatx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are not that much less complex: interior is the same (hundreds of parts), suspension, AC, heat, wiper blades, brakes, etc. The engine is certainly different but I don't think that lowers the overall complexity of the vehicle into "anyone can do it" territory.

All those parts can be bought essentially off the shelf. It’s obviously not anyone can do it, but certainly the barrier to entry has been significantly lowered.

Which parts do I choose? How do I assemble them? How do I make sure they all fit together? Plus as another commenter pointed out, I can buy an off-the-shelf combustion engine. So by your logic, it should be just as easy to build an ICE car. Yet neither is easy to design/build.