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Guess I'm Done with Discord

wowana.me

91–100 of 121 posts

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For free services, I'm the product, not the customer. I understood this and used Discord regardless, because at the time it was the easiest way to talk to certain communities (mostly gaming related). If I was using Nitro, I'd have to agree with you, but I had a clear stance not to give a dime to a company I do not support.

> For free services, I'm the product, not the customer. That's been beaten to death by now. Let's start with that I don't agree with it. If the service is free the price is $0, that does not suddenly transform the person who the product is being delivered to into the product itself. It merely changes the revenue stream into another one that is invisible to the customer. The company then has many options in order to g…

Perhaps I shouldn't have used that phrase, but I felt it would resonate with people more immediately than any other choice of words. In any case, I don't pay for Discord so I am definitely not a customer, whether or not I or my data is a "product".

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#92
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else suggested I should have done the same, but again, I've had prior issues with Discord and really just wanted to be done with it. This account issue set me back a little, and I can't participate in some communities I'd like to, but I've already talked to moderators for some of the guilds that I played a big part in, and they were happy to set up a Discord to Matrix relay for their main channels. Matrix isn…

Have you considered using Matrix and ditching Discord altogether?

Yeah, I'm running my own homeserver. (Incidentally it decided to use up all my memory today and crash, so I'm hoping these performance issues with Synapse are fixed or one of the talked-about alternatives comes into fruition.)

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but also the tone of both emails was quite antagonistic The customer is always right. > They may have had slightly better luck if they'd been friendlier and not attempted to school the Discord staff on how their app should behave. Or not. Besides, it should not matter, either they did something bad or they did not, the tone of the message may upset the recipient but when you ban someone just like that you can expec…

For free services, I'm the product, not the customer. I understood this and used Discord regardless, because at the time it was the easiest way to talk to certain communities (mostly gaming related). If I was using Nitro, I'd have to agree with you, but I had a clear stance not to give a dime to a company I do not support.

You are still supporting Discord by using it and Discord still needs non-paying members. Without those members, Discord won't be as popular and the paying members wouldn't stick around.

By all means, you are still providing value to the service and they need you as much as their paying customers. However, a lot of companies lose sight of this logic once they go big.

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#94

I am more and more thinking of this as a symptom of the "Data wars." I define that as the conflict between how much data someone is willing to share in exchange for a 'free' service. The services aren't free of course, they pay their overhead and costs by re-selling the data they collect about their users. And as other sources of revenue (like ads) have lost value the data service has filled in. And since the data bu…

Since the OP is specifically talking about Discord, it’s worth mentioning that what you’re talking about doesn’t seem to be the case for them - they make money from Nitro subscriptions and their game store, and state in their privacy policy that they are “not in the business of selling your information” (https://discordapp.com/privacy, in the section ‘Our Disclosure of Your Information’).

So relating back to the post, their justification doesn’t necessarily make it right, but I think it’s incorrect to attribute it to a malicious cause.

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#95
Hey. I work at Discord - and actually, this system is a thing I work on - and code my team wrote caused your account to be locked. If my team is doing a good job, you won't notice us. If we're doing a bad job, you might get some spam, or your account may be blocked for false positives.

Discord gets a lot of spam. We've disabled, and/or challenged millions of accounts for trying to use our platform for unsolicited spam (trying to advertise their service, sex bots, crypto spam, etc...). Our anti-spam systems continue to evolve - just as the spammers who target our platform continue to evolve. The spam attacks against our platform vary in terms of how elaborate and skilled they are. Some are very obvious in terms of a detection perspective, and some are not. As such, we use a blend of signals, heuristics and machine learning algorithms to determine whether someone is spamming on our platform. Additionally, we look at where spam is originating from as an input to our heuristic.

One such source is TOR exit nodes - and as such, our system considers content created (DMs opened, etc..) from people using TOR exit nodes with more stringency than other sources. As such, if you are using TOR, it is definitely more likely that you may get challenged either via captcha, or phone verification. The system is definitely not perfect - and unfortunately in OP's case, it flagged the account for phone verification.

To address the 3 demands in OP's email:

> 1. Discord's anti-spam isn't so anal,

I'm not entirely sure what this means, nor what actionable steps I can take. You are using TOR, a source of a great amount of spam/attempted spam on our network.

> 2. my account (and other accounts in good standing and with proper 2FA) is exempt from such checks

Having 2fa is not a strong signal as to whether or not an account is legitimate. It is very trivial to automate setting up 2fa on an account. https://github.com/pyauth/pyotp can be used to both generate and validate 2fa codes. It'd be trivial to hook that up to the registration flow to enable 2fa - and if that was a way to 'bypass' our anti-spam measures, it'd surely be exploited.

> 3. I don't have to solve a Google reCAPTCHA for an account I have taken every step to protect against bruteforcing. Using Tor is not a crime; don't treat it as such.

Malicious actors constantly attempt to brute-force logins on our system - generally from public password dumps or other leaks. A lot of these brute-force attempts come from TOR, and other public proxies. In order to avoid information disclosure, we always captcha logins from these kinds of IPs, regardless of whether or not an account exists with the e-mail in question, whether the login credentials are correct, or there is 2fa enabled on the account. So, the "captchas" you notice are not really specific to your account, but rather, the origin of the login. Using TOR is not a crime, you are right - but - it's also our responsibility to our users to make it reasonably hard for their accounts to get compromised on our platform (even if they don't employ the best security practices - and reuse their passwords across the internet.)

Finally, I'd like to address: "Discord has shown to be hostile toward FOSS and privacy for a while now" and understand why that is.

As a company, we have tried to give back to open source software (either by financial sponsorship, or by contributing our bugfixes/changes upstream.) We also attribute all open source projects we use in our software here: https://discordapp.com/licenses. Additionally, we host many open source communities on our platform: https://discordapp.com/open-source. And finally, we try to open source software we make which may be useful to the eco-system in general: https://github.com/discordapp/.

As for privacy, we've stated that we don't sell your data. When you verify your phone number, we ONLY use it for the purpose of anti-spam, and it is never shared with anyone (aside from twilio, which sends you the SMS), especially for the purpose of financial gain. We're pretty up front about how we make money (freemium model: https://discordapp.com/nitro, in-app commerce: https://discordapp.com/sell-your-game). We provide privacy controls: https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us/articles/36000410991..., and allow you to request an export of all the data we have stored on your account: https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us/articles/36000402769...

I know this reply won't satisfy everyone, but hopefully, being truthful and upfront about this will help!

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#96
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OpenSSL license for Discord's bundled versions of OpenSSL [0] has two conditions which are being violated. When they advertise the features of their client, or offer binaries of their client for download, they do not include the verbatim text, "This product includes software developed by the OpenSSL Project for use in the OpenSSL Toolkit. ( http://www.openssl.org/)" They know that they are violating this license;…

But that's not what the license says.. it says: * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * "This product includes cryptographic software written by * Eric Young (eay@cryptsoft.com)" I'm not a lawyer, but my interpretation of "this software" is OpenSSL, which wouldn't apply this clause to all advertising of discord features. It would be wh…

We are not aware of non-compliance with the OpenSSL license. We attribute usage of OpenSSL in our licenses page (along with all the other OSS projects we use.) https://discordapp.com/licenses - reproducing the copyright notice as required by condition 2 of the license:

> Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.

As for condition 3, I am unable to locate any marketing materials which mention the usage of OpenSSL. However, if any such material exists that is in non-compliance we are very interested in ensuring that we are in compliance.

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google captcha is particularly egregious because it will flag you as "never allow in, ever" but not give any indication of this, and still will happily have you solving captchas (that is, working for Google, for free) for 30+ minutes, until you catch on that they aren't ever going to let you past. Captcha v3 is even worse in this regard, because it silently flags you while appearing to let you in...

I like this idea since it puts a lot of effort onto bad actors and exhausts their resources.

You're as bad as google.

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#98
post #69
post #6

I like that for privicy reasons they won't tell you why you were banned. Whose privicy? Does that just mean "our black box NN has banned you and we won't know or care why" ?

Their own privacy most likely. Don't want to reveal the techniques used to identify the accounts they ban, so the scammers can't learn from it.

This has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with harvesting personal information to sell.

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#99
post #38
post #17

I want to be done with discord. The only value i find is the notifications when you have an @reply. Isn't there someone that has done this for freenode or other IRC ?

I used to use a bouncer, vnc, which there's a plugin for push notifications. Now I use matrix.org, which bridges to freenode and many (all?) other IRC servers and does notifications well. Quite happy with it, personally.

Yep, I wished matrix would replace discord and all other proprietary crap. Unfortunately the UX is still a bit lacking, but if you somewhat know what you are doing it's great.

Re: Guess I'm Done with Discord

#100
post #18

Tor breaks a lot of shit for me, and I dont even bother with captchas becuase it usually just flags me as a bot. So I dont think this is particularly surprising or out of the ordinary. But yeah, discord used to be held in high standards by me and plenty of other gamers, but they have made it clear that they cannot handle tough situations, and dont really care about their userbase. Someone should start a privacy focus…

Sorry, if you're using TOR on discord I probably don't want you there. Gaming yields insane toxicity, grooming of kids, harassment, stalking and other bad shit. People using TOR, Jondonym or HMA or something else to hide who and where they are, are free to browse the web with pseudonymity. I've had people stalk me in RL, showing up at my place of work and doxxing my address.

For that matter, I've seen weird, creepy old men playing with kids that they're in no way related to. ESRB rating doesn't keep squeakers out. There is more than enough reason to ban VPNs and TOR from gaming servers, and related communication services.

All games should be doing it. Yeah, you're vulnerable if someone owns them but guess what? You already were with TeamSpeak, Ventrilo and other alternatives, which you can use if you don't like the verification policy that companies like Steam also enforce if you wish to participate. I'd be okay with Steam banning VPNs and TOR, too. They're not pioneers of it, either. For a time, SOE did the same thing with blanket bans of VPNs and TOR. Which was a relief, with adults wandering around in their child-targeted games. Much less the wastes of space in the EverQuest trolling and threatening.

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