Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft • Hacker News Board

Re: Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft

#31

Post by sp332 » Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 2:51 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #30

sp332 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada, there is a Ritual Calling of the Engineer, which has an "Obligation" which is not exactly an oath. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ritual_of_the_Calling_of_an... I'll paste the text here if I can find it.

It's a beautiful tradition. On my graduation all soon-to-be engineer colleagues also made a solemn promise more or less like the ones other engineers take in other countries and schools. I also like the idea of passing the iron rings down through generations of new engineers. In Brazil we don't. It reminds the ones new to the career that others came before them and that others will come after them and of the obligati…

In Canada, I've heard it's more "traditional" to let the newer engineers wear shinier rings, so the more experienced ones have tarnished rings. One of the older engineers lost his in some machinery and had to get a new one. He hated it, said it made him feel like a n00b :-)

Re: Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft

#32

Post by cllabs » Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 2:53 AM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #14

igravious wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true in the US but what about in other jurisdictions? I mean doctor's have the Hippocrates oath of do no harm to the patient but (and not to come over all tree-hugging peacenik like) why do chemists/bioengineers/physicists not have a similar oath with respect to the our species or other species in general or the planet in its entirety? But I guess the scientists do the theorizing and the engineers and cod…

In Canada, there is a Ritual Calling of the Engineer, which has an "Obligation" which is not exactly an oath. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ritual_of_the_Calling_of_an... I'll paste the text here if I can find it.

I found it very interesting that joining any of the Australian Professional societies (Engineers Australia, Australian Computer Society) as a Software Engineer we have to agree to a set of bye-laws and a code of ethics with fairly harsh internal penalties.

Personally I think it's a brilliant idea and wish that more professions adopt a similar thinking (I don't know of any that do but then again I haven't looked very hard).

Re: Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft

#33

Post by electromagnetic » Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 3:57 AM UTC

gvb wrote: post #27

Trivia: the space shuttle avoids the blackout by its shape, which allows it to communicate upward to the TDRSS satellites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_blackout#Reentry... "[T]he Shuttle can communicate with a Tracking and Data Relay Satellite during re-entry. This is because the shape of the Shuttle creates a "hole" in the ionized air envelope, at the tail end of the craft, through which it can commun…

I sincerely thank you, it's something I've always wondered about but never put in the time to actually look it up.

Re: Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft

#34

Post by TGJ » Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 7:29 AM UTC

One thing that has always seemed to rub me wrong in space exploration is the giant need to stay in touch with Earth. Supposedly the space shuttles are crewed by the great explorers of our time, but it always seems that everything is governed by people on the ground and not in the air.

Re: Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft

#35

Post by borism » Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 8:26 PM UTC

dstorrs wrote: post #24

One thing they did not mention is that this solves the primary problem with orbital crowbars (fictionally called "Rods from God", "Thor", KEWs, and various other things). You could drop a kinetic warhead (basically a crowbar) from orbit to kill a tank / bunker / whatever, but you could also use them for a variety of peactime missions such as mining, emergency flood control (digging drainage ditches, causing controlle…

interesting! what kind of materials need to be used so that crowbar doesn't burn-up on reentry? isn't it a little bit more expensive than using traditional explosives?

Re: Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft

#36

Post by Nick_C » Fri, Jan 07, 2011, 7:20 AM UTC

TGJ wrote: post #34

One thing that has always seemed to rub me wrong in space exploration is the giant need to stay in touch with Earth. Supposedly the space shuttles are crewed by the great explorers of our time, but it always seems that everything is governed by people on the ground and not in the air.

Basically it's resource management, both human and materials. I'll leave the human side out, but recommend Gene Kranz book Failure Is Not an Option for more info on why ground controllers are important.

It costs a huge amount of money (in fuel) to lift anything up, even just a kilo or two. You're better off lifting only a telemetry system and putting all the processing, display and engineering on the ground. That means having ground controllers to manage it.

Of course, in the early days, you couldn't physically fit computers in the capsule. Now we can, but it is still more economical to have most of it on the ground and just use radio to let the systems communicate.

Re: Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft

#37

Post by dstorrs » Sat, Jan 08, 2011, 2:42 AM UTC

borism wrote: post #35

dstorrs wrote: post #24

One thing they did not mention is that this solves the primary problem with orbital crowbars (fictionally called "Rods from God", "Thor", KEWs, and various other things). You could drop a kinetic warhead (basically a crowbar) from orbit to kill a tank / bunker / whatever, but you could also use them for a variety of peactime missions such as mining, emergency flood control (digging drainage ditches, causing controlle…

interesting! what kind of materials need to be used so that crowbar doesn't burn-up on reentry? isn't it a little bit more expensive than using traditional explosives?

If you made it out of steel, it would survive just fine -- there would be some ablation, but it would still get to the ground.

As to the "more expensive"...no, not really. Basically, it's just a crowbar with a simple camera and some fins on it. Using this technology it would trade in the camera for a radio back to the launch vehicle. You'd need all the same bits on a missile, plus more besides, and the missile would need to be larger.

Re: Russian Physicists Solve Radio Black-Out Problem for Re-Entering Spacecraft

#38

Post by borism » Sat, Jan 08, 2011, 11:23 AM UTC

dstorrs wrote: post #37

borism wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting! what kind of materials need to be used so that crowbar doesn't burn-up on reentry? isn't it a little bit more expensive than using traditional explosives?

If you made it out of steel, it would survive just fine -- there would be some ablation, but it would still get to the ground. As to the "more expensive"...no, not really. Basically, it's just a crowbar with a simple camera and some fins on it. Using this technology it would trade in the camera for a radio back to the launch vehicle. You'd need all the same bits on a missile, plus more besides, and the missile would…

yes, but you don't need a missile to build a dam :)

sure, it will be less expensive to kill a lot of people with this. those are not cost savings I had in mind.