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Software Architecture Guide

martinfowler.com

11–20 of 303 posts

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#11
Oh man. Another diatribe from Martin Fowler™.

Takes me back to the 90's when I was in awe of teh architectures and architects, understanding of which was always just beyond my grasp.

99% of software I've encountered has some kind of interface, a domain it operates in, and data it operates on. Call these three things layers. It also has some cross-cutting things that are universally available in the software - broadly, security, comms and exception management.

You deploy these things on desktops, phones, and devices. Other parts of the things live on servers or on clusters, mabe. Call these places (hardware) tiers.

There. Architecture done. From micro services to huge banking monoliths. Start there. Everything else is the usual let's think about what we're doing before we do it.

But I guess keeping it simple and dealing with exceptions as they arise isn't as glamorous as using fancy new names, working for a hipster consultancy or generally saying X or Y is teh new futures.

If you harbour doubt great, questions are good. I suggest obtaining a copy of Wicked Problems, Rightous Solutions (ISBN-10: 013590126X). It will show you that we had EXACTLY the same problems of today, back in 1990. We just call them new things.

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#12
post #7

Whenever I see yet another article by Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, Robert Martin & co I ask myself - where is the evidence for what they are preaching? What are the graphs based on? What is the evidence behind the proposed rules? These authors are clearly accomplished blog and book writers, but anyone whose software-related accomplishments are not open source or at least well known should have their statements scrutiniz…

all these people have some experience in the field and they did put some things out that gave names/spread practices in our industry. is that enough to take everything they spew as the truth? far from it.

you should probably take a look and filter it through your experience.

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#13
post #9
post #7

Whenever I see yet another article by Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, Robert Martin & co I ask myself - where is the evidence for what they are preaching? What are the graphs based on? What is the evidence behind the proposed rules? These authors are clearly accomplished blog and book writers, but anyone whose software-related accomplishments are not open source or at least well known should have their statements scrutiniz…

I have had this thought for many years. Where is all the perfectly designed, bug free, maintenance-bliss, fully documented, fully tested, future-proofed code located so we can all marvel at its glory?

> All code is bad. Every programmer occasionally, when nobody’s home, turns off the lights, pours a glass of scotch, puts on some light German electronica, and opens up a file on their computer. It’s a different file for every programmer. Sometimes they wrote it, sometimes they found it and knew they had to save it. They read over the lines, and weep at their beauty, then the tears turn bitter as they remember the rest of the files and the inevitable collapse of all that is good and true in the world.

from: https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#14
I have been building large scale/distributed systems myself and reviewing designs of systems like these being built around me, for years now. I have never come across any of the type of ivory tower architecture that this post and other sofware architects write about. We're talking about real-world systems that are high-load and somewhat novel, with battle-scarred engineers building them.

I find it ironic that that many of the people who write about architecture are consultants or writers. Consultants usually come into a project, make some decisions and write some code in a few months. Then they leave, without having to maintain the application. Of course they bring in fancy-named architecture patterns as one-size-fits-all solutions, leaving before the cracks on the approach show. Ever notice how little writing there is about iterative software design?

For writers, it seems they build a simple proof-of-concept solution, that is never deployed in production, documenting this process and showing it off as an example.

Yet, when it comes to writing about software architecture, this is 90% of the materials. Engineers who build this day in, day out, design systems from inception, iterate on them, code and deploy, then maintain and operate them for years - they barely share what approach they took. And it's none of this fancy-talk in articles like this one. It's not UML or other formal methods. It's simple documents, simple diagrams, lots of discussion about tradeoffs and tons of back-and-forth comments over Google Docs/O365 and in real life.

I'm at the point where I'm serioulsly debating writing something more substantial on how actual software design works at tech companies, when you're not a consultant or a writer, but an engineer who does this full-time, end-to-end, living with all the consequences of decisions and fixing mistakes after.

On the importance of prototyping, extensible MVPs, whiteboarding, documenting an initial design and getting feedback, iterating on it, architecture jams, design war rooms - and when starting again when the world/business changes substantially, keeping things running and migrating things over to the new system.

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#15
post #7

Whenever I see yet another article by Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, Robert Martin & co I ask myself - where is the evidence for what they are preaching? What are the graphs based on? What is the evidence behind the proposed rules? These authors are clearly accomplished blog and book writers, but anyone whose software-related accomplishments are not open source or at least well known should have their statements scrutiniz…

For some of these speakers, I’ve literally never seen any evidence that they’ve written a single line of code. Why should we listen to Fowler? What large successful projects has he created using his ideas are there that I can look at? Where’s the data behind his slides? It’s all just talk talk talk. I’d listen to someone like Chris Lattner talk about how to design and write software because I can see whatever approac…

Chris Lattner knows how to write system software and compilers which are completely separate beasts from the typical bespoke enterprise or software as a service apps that most developers write every day.

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#16

Oh man. Another diatribe from Martin Fowler™. Takes me back to the 90's when I was in awe of teh architectures and architects, understanding of which was always just beyond my grasp. 99% of software I've encountered has some kind of interface, a domain it operates in, and data it operates on. Call these three things layers. It also has some cross-cutting things that are universally available in the software - broadly…

I learned a lot from Domain Driven Design and some from Design Patterns by the GOF.

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some of these speakers, I’ve literally never seen any evidence that they’ve written a single line of code. Why should we listen to Fowler? What large successful projects has he created using his ideas are there that I can look at? Where’s the data behind his slides? It’s all just talk talk talk. I’d listen to someone like Chris Lattner talk about how to design and write software because I can see whatever approac…

Chris Lattner knows how to write system software and compilers which are completely separate beasts from the typical bespoke enterprise or software as a service apps that most developers write every day.

[deleted]

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#18
post #7

Whenever I see yet another article by Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, Robert Martin & co I ask myself - where is the evidence for what they are preaching? What are the graphs based on? What is the evidence behind the proposed rules? These authors are clearly accomplished blog and book writers, but anyone whose software-related accomplishments are not open source or at least well known should have their statements scrutiniz…

So first, you should read their books for concrete code. Martin books, for example "refactoring" or "Enterprise architecture" actually have good code examples.

The same apply for kent beck early work on smalltalk (you can look at Junit) or his early work on the HotDraw editor (which was the source of many of the pattern in the Design Pattern book). Kent was one of the first adopter of smalltalk at the early 80 is techtronix, together with ward cunnighum (the inventor of wiki) and rebbeca swift brooks.

Robert Martin work is mainly driven by his consulting practice and tend to change based on the on going trend. At the 2000's he was working with Grady Booch, preaching UML and design before coding. Later he dropped that in favour of agile and TDD.

You do not see case studies since the industry simply does not really care. It is very trend prone.

Most of the adopted advances were actually "hacks". For example C++ was invented out of necessity to create "C with objects" by a single person in AT&T labs. Unix was hacked in 3 weeks. Java was invented to program toasters, etc.

Any attempt to develop tools and technique based on real research saw not adaptation - for example Ada at the 80s, UML at the 90's and early 2000, functional programming, TLA+ , etc.

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#19
The Enterprise Architect's job is rather more like that of an Urban Renewal Planner than an architect. There are many pre-existing structures, many interested parties with varying degrees of control, and many economic and technical constraints to be satisfied within a larger political system.

Re: Software Architecture Guide

#20
post #7

Whenever I see yet another article by Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, Robert Martin & co I ask myself - where is the evidence for what they are preaching? What are the graphs based on? What is the evidence behind the proposed rules? These authors are clearly accomplished blog and book writers, but anyone whose software-related accomplishments are not open source or at least well known should have their statements scrutiniz…

So first, you should read their books for concrete code. Martin books, for example "refactoring" or "Enterprise architecture" actually have good code examples. The same apply for kent beck early work on smalltalk (you can look at Junit) or his early work on the HotDraw editor (which was the source of many of the pattern in the Design Pattern book). Kent was one of the first adopter of smalltalk at the early 80 is tec…

The question was about "research" in the meaning of quantitative scientific evidence that these proposed techniques make software delivery better in real-world conditions, not "research" in the sense of new ideas from academics. As a professional, I don't want UML because I've seen no evidence it actually helps. Show me relevant studies that it does and I will absolutely change my mind.

(And there are plenty of things that industry does respect that came from academic research in the sense of new ideas. Rust, stereotypically the language of the trend-prone, draws on everything from Ada to functional programming. But unlike those it actually and demonstrably meets the needs of general-purpose programming in industry.)

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