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The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

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Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#51

Post by pvaldes »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #33
fwsgonzo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "manipulation" to stop destroying the planet? To me its all about the accelerated logging in the amazon basin that we know is fatal.

No. This year Russia lost 3 times more forest and nobody cares :) All the noise is just about politics.

A hectare of forest lost in brazil is not equivalent to an hectare lost in Taiga. Biodiversity in taiga is not even remotely close to the biodiversity in rainforests.

There are decens of different species of trees, giving fruits, supporting bromeliads, hundreds of orchids, arboreal frogs, monkeys, sloths, macrobats, snails, spiders, scorpions, thousands of different insects, snakes, hundred of birds, raptors, lizards, thousands of different fishes also in the flooded soil ... You will never find that in a taiga's pine. Taiga is a frozen void desert for many months of the year (and has been devoid of most of this former macrofauna yet).

Is not always about politics.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#52

Post by lucianomt »

sarbaz wrote: post #45

I've read like 10 articles about this so far, and they did not answer the following questions: - How large, proportionally, is the burned region? How long would it theoretically take for the whole thing to burn down at this rate? - How large, proportionally is the burned region in Siberia? How long has the Siberian fire been burning, how long would it take for everything to burn down, etc. - I've seen the 20% of the…

The "20% of the world's oxygen" claim is unfounded.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2019/08/23/as-the...

As the professor states in his tweets, there are legitimate reasons to avoid deforestation ("for climate, for biodiversity, for indigenous communities"). Oxygen supply is not one of them.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#53

Post by guilhas »

meerita wrote: post #37
guilhas wrote: post #28

It is very bad because the current president policy is to sell and deforest for farms or cattle, without any worry of the ecosystem or native people of the area. Which should be preserve and protect. In terms of the area affected by fire, more burned in Portugal in 2018, which is a very small compared with Amazon size.

Do you have any oficial policy document that support that claim?

[flagged]

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#54

Post by thewhitetulip »

austincheney wrote: post #38
thewhitetulip wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the source for 20% oxygen. Brasil's president thinks climate change is a myth (just like every conservative head of state these days) It's scary how much he could damage the world by flattening the Amazon

I don’t think that is accurate. Most of the oxygen produced by the Amazon remains local and is consumed by local fauna. The rest of the world is almost entirely dependent upon local systems and oceanic diatoms for oxygen. There are many other serious environmental concerns at stake, but not oxygen loss.

Makes sense that regions would have a local source of O2.

But it will have some impact on CO2 right?

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#55

Post by guilhas »

lxhmj wrote: post #11

In the average of the last 15 years: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-bra... >As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the average in comparison to the past 15 years.

The problem is a combination of factors, what for others would have been a tragedy to avoid, the current Brazilian president welcomes the fires as an opportunity to dislodge natives and sell more land and wood.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#56

Post by kibibu »

austincheney wrote: post #38
thewhitetulip wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the source for 20% oxygen. Brasil's president thinks climate change is a myth (just like every conservative head of state these days) It's scary how much he could damage the world by flattening the Amazon

I don’t think that is accurate. Most of the oxygen produced by the Amazon remains local and is consumed by local fauna. The rest of the world is almost entirely dependent upon local systems and oceanic diatoms for oxygen. There are many other serious environmental concerns at stake, but not oxygen loss.

What? This doesn't sound plausible at all. Do you have a citation for this claim?

This paper suggests quite the opposite. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S209592731...

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#57

Post by guilhas »

meerita wrote: post #35
fwsgonzo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bolsonaro is a dangerous far-right buffoon who is accelerating logging in the amazon basin. If you want to talk about politics then why was his direct opponent put in jail during the election? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-politics/brazils-b... He is basically the encyclopaedia image of corruption.

His direct oponent was guilty of several corruption cases. It went on an extensive judiciary process i believe you have followed or you understand. It wasnt jailed summarily. The supreme court even denied by votation so, it is not something we can relate to the amazonian fire season.

His opponent was jailed with zero proof, in a sham that clear at the time for anyone that understands the justice process. But recently it was clear for everyone with the judge Moro leaked WhatsApp messages.

https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/national...

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#58

Post by vfc1 »

fwsgonzo wrote: post #21
vfc1 wrote: post #17

When the Amazon turns into a savannah well into our lifetime, we will see how this stuff looks like historically. I suspect though that the attention that the press is giving to this year's fires, which are catastrophic and need attention, has something to do with the fact that Brasil is about to sign a historic trade agreement with the EU and this is being used to politically pressure Brasil into stopping the increa…

The "manipulation" to stop destroying the planet? To me its all about the accelerated logging in the amazon basin that we know is fatal.

Have a look, logging is only 3%, the rest is cattle ranching and agriculture (most of it to produce cattle feed) - https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2019/08/d...

I agree it's necessary to force Brasil's hand to take some immediate action, but I just don't like these tactics. What else is in the news for similar type of reasons?

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#59

Post by meerita »

guilhas wrote: post #53
meerita wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any oficial policy document that support that claim?

[flagged]

Then you have 0 proof. The NASA Observatory, which studies the amazonian fire seasons since many years contradicts the current situation with evidence https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-bra...

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#60

Post by deepnet »

brabel wrote: post #25
deepnet wrote: post #5

The Amazon Rainforest Tipping Point is 20-25% deforestation total. We are at 20% deforestation now. https://phys.org/news/2018-03-amazon-deforestation.html The forest fires stem from previous deforestation, so destruction is cumulative, exponential. Past the tipping point the rainforest dies. To quote the Expanse, this is the cascade, (and we are nearing the point where) this station is already dead.

> The forest fires stem from previous deforestation, so destruction is cumulative, exponential. That's just wrong. The fires can actually make the forest stronger next year[1]. This is part of the cycle of nature. Have you been to the Amazon? Pretty much every inch of it has burned in the past, but after a year or so, you could barely tell, as in the wet season, the plants grow a lot faster than most people who are n…

The evidence disagrees, the link I posted provides evidence that the majority of the forest fires stem from previous clearances.

While there is a natural role for fire in forests this is unsustainable and close to a tipping point of unrecoverable.

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