I couldn't imagine debating politics at work.
Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#852This is an eye opener. > [Google] employees discussed at length [on internal message boards] whether Trump’s win meant it’s time for a violent revolution. “How do people cope with this?” one employee wrote. “I’ve never been part of a military or war effort before. … I don’t know how useful I’ll be.” It's about time Google tells people to take their political revolution talk somewhere else other than company internal…
People are rabidly dismissive of the project veritas expose, but articles with quotes like this repeteadly show pervasive bias among Google staff which aligns exactly with the accusations and candid management recordings within the video [1]. The video is admittedly obnoxious and overly dramatic, but the candid clips with exec Jen Gennai strongly suggest that these political biases are leaking into technical work wit…
That video has been debunked as being heavily edited misinformation. Here's Jen's side on it:
https://medium.com/@gennai.jen/this-is-not-how-i-expected-mo...
Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#853Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Victims" of someone expressing opinions they disagree with? Oh the horror!
I don't know why I'm responding to the most flippant comment here, but I think your argument, however poorly stated, is worth countering. "I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership." - James Damore I don't think the preceding…
>> distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ
>> It asserts that women are not fit to work at Google,
No, it does not. It talks about well-known well-researched differences in distributions of preferences between men and women in general.
>> and implies that the women he works with are incompetent because of biology.
Absolutely does not imply that since it relates to men and women in general, not just Google employees and not even just the tech crowd.
Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#854Earlier quoted context omitted.
People are rabidly dismissive of Project Veritas and another one of their "exposures" because of their attempts to "make evidence" by tricking people into admitting something, cherrypicking what "evidence" they do display, and having a "answer first, evidence second" mindset to their operation. If you want to show that Google has "bias against conservatives" or whatever, get it from a reputable source instead of the…
I've seen some of their videos. They seem fairly damning, and rebuttals have always been fairly weak. For example, a google exec was captured on video saying: “smaller companies don’t have the resources” to “prevent next Trump situation”. In what context does that statement not amount to silencing conservative perspective on their platform? I completely agree it is their right to do so, and probably benefits the nati…
Trump situation. Not Trump. I am not sure what the context of the discussion was, but I am sure a Project Veritas video doesn't give the whole context. It could be referencing something unrelated to the election. Maybe it was about Net Neutrality or some other anti big tech signaling. Large companies have more sway than smaller ones. The fact that you go from one no-context quote to "silencing conservative perspectives" is not good. Please keep thinking critically.
Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#855it is amazing how one simple thought escapes google execs - country is split in two halfs. google has strongly affiliated itself with one of the halfs to the point of complete alienation by other half. google would rather stick to its questionable political preferences and lose 50% of the market. sounds like a poor business decision.
Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#856Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. If I'm working on a team that is rolling out a new Google drive feature, I really don't need to hear you talk about why drinking straws are a phallic symbol and used by the patriarchy to keep woman down. We have work to do.
No one is preventing you from working.
Political discussions in the work place effectively become denial of service attacks on some co-workers. Since you have to collaborate with others at work to get your job done, anything that "DoS" your co-workers "DoS" you as well. Plus it hurts the value of the equity portion of your compensation, so it a way, it's theft too.
Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#857Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly, a lot of people genuinely believe that everything is political. I recently expressed hope for the "no politics" guideline of HN be more strictly enforced and was told that "not talking about politics is politics". Frustrating to deal with this mindset...
I'm certainly one of those people. What is the boundary between "politics" and "not politics?" Who gets to decide? Your employer probably has more effect on your day to day life than your government does. Why would you be allowed to debate what the latter should do but not the former?
> I'm certainly one of those people. What is the boundary between "politics" and "not politics?" Who gets to decide?
It's common sense. Anything that revolves around government, elections, laws, etc.
> Your employer probably has more effect on your day to day life than your government does. Why would you be allowed to debate what the latter should do but not the former?
I meant the exact opposite (I forgot that politics could be taken to mean "office politics" or "company politics"). Getting involved in government politics or activism is your role as a private citizen, not as a company employee. Regarding "company politics" (work hours, office arrangement, project management methodology, managerial decisions, coffee machine model, etc.), I guess it's up to your employer to decide what is up for debate.
Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#858This article makes it seem like debating politics is a good practices in workplace. It is NOT! Talking politics in workplace is not professional - different political opinions can wreck marriages, it can certainly wreck your job too! Just think about what if your boss is having a completely different political opinions than what you belief. Also any major corporations leaning one side of the political party would imm…
In the EU, freedom from discrimination on the basis of political opinion is considered a fundamental right, and is mentioned as such in the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. Private conversations about politics thus is entirely outside the scope of what the company is allowed to care about. Public comments, for example on global email lists, would be a different topic.
Good luck proving that political differences were why you were fired.
Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#859Earlier quoted context omitted.
People are rabidly dismissive of Project Veritas and another one of their "exposures" because of their attempts to "make evidence" by tricking people into admitting something, cherrypicking what "evidence" they do display, and having a "answer first, evidence second" mindset to their operation. If you want to show that Google has "bias against conservatives" or whatever, get it from a reputable source instead of the…
Where do you go for official sources when the entire modern media establishment has an undeniable (and rather open) liberal bias? Ignoring bias, do you believe that every given situation that some group may identify as a problem is guaranteed to have a reputable source reporting on it? I'd love to find a more reputable source, but one is not currently available, and I'm not in a position to create one. That does not…
I admittedly only looked at at half a dozen images/PDFs, but I didn't see anything alarming or beyond what I would expect in any large company. In fact your link has had the opposite effect you intended because if you think a well cited document on diversity improving ROI and other metrics is controversial, I am now much less interested in what you have to say.
If media does have a bias, and let's assume it does since it was de-regulated, then I'd put pro-business Liberalism first. Then on a liberal vs conservative spectrum, I would agree it is more liberal than conservative. But why is that controversial when by raw population there are more socially liberal people than conservative?
Now that's out of the way... I do agree that no one media source should have the power Google, FB, Fox, CNN, etc have. And there is no doubt not every interest is covered by the giants. But you should stick to that argument and not bring in PV to actually win people over.
Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore
#860Earlier quoted context omitted.
The memo made some very poignant points, but then the author expressed some strange opinions that I would never attempt to defend. (Even worse, there was no reason to put some of these opinions in the memo.) But what's more scary is Google's official response to the diversity memo. (For context, Google instituted certain hiring policies to increase diversity, which the "diversity memo" questioned.) If you have the ti…
>The memo made some very poignant points, but then the author expressed some strange opinions that I would never attempt to defend. Yeah but why have a discussion group about politics if you can only defend the mainstream points of view?
Yeah but why have a discussion group about politics if you can only defend the mainstream points of view?
Because people typically don't discuss politics to be persuaded or to have their mind opened. They do it to circlejerk, flame, and re-inforce their own existing beliefs. Whether they are on the left, or the right.