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Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

giveinternet.org

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Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#61

Post by rhacker »

jteppinette wrote: post #57
jteppinette wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> be the difference causing someone to lose a house, not get a job, not find legal help, be unaware of a disaster All of these problems can be solved without the internet. Also, access to the internet does not absolutely solve these problems.

@rhacker I don't think its a human right to have clothes though. I don't think anyone should be able to steal your clothes, but I don't think anyone should have to give you clothes either..

> I don't think its a human right to have clothes though. I don't think anyone should be able to steal your clothes, but I don't think anyone should have to give you clothes either..

To think that a "human right to have clothes" means your clothes will be stolen or you will be forced to give clothes is pretty strange. If you are a developer lead at Apple I assume you pay taxes? Those Taxes are fundamentally supporting lots of initiatives like, giving homeless people clothes, food, housing.

https://datalab.usaspending.gov/homelessness-analysis.html

I'm going to take a quick guess that you don't think humans should have "any" rights?

I could be wrong. If you enlighten me on what human rights you DO believe in, I can walk you through my argument a lot better.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#62

Post by jibla »

tguvot wrote: post #58

Gamarjoba, I think what you are doing is very important thing but it's not scalable to 2.5b people. The biggest problem for those 2.5b people are: - Availability of network infrastructure. It starts with whatever network backbone and ends with either mobile internet or wifi network. In most cases there is no business case to build out this kind of infrastructure as there is essentially no way to recover investment un…

Gamarjoba:) We've researched this issue thoroughly and the infrastructure is not an issue. While 50% of the world's population lacks internet access only 15% live out of the coverage area of 3/4 G networks. This is actually where the number 2.5 Bn comes from. The main challenge is the affordability of monthly internet fees and of course devices. We actually solve both problems by providing devices and an internet connection.

Electricity might be an issue in some areas but according to our assumptions, more than 160 million secondary students in low and low-middle income countries live in cities and areas where electricity is not an issue.

Btw by working with the local communities, providing resources, training and constant assistance, we also seem to encourage them to see the relevance of an Internet connection. We hope to prove that most of our beneficiaries will be willing to continue paying for their Internet fees long after we have stopped paying for them. According to preliminary studies most of the families are ready to reprioritize their costs and maintain an internet connection.

The "Fun" times you mentioned is one of the reasons why we've started GiveInternet.org since we have experienced first-hand the transformational power of connectivity in improving people's lives.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#63

Post by jzemeocala »

jibla wrote: post #55
zrm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That explains why they're cheaper than Windows, but what makes them cheaper than equivalent hardware with e.g. Ubuntu?

Right. We have tested Ubuntu as well. Still figuring out what the right solutions are. Do you think Ubuntu might be a better option? Or are there any other solutions that might be relevant for us?

I would personally recommend ubuntu. It's also free and unlikely to get viruses. Plus, In my experience from helping the elderly and other computer illiterates get connected, it often has a much gentler learning curve.The main hurdle then would be to find the cheap hardware with decent compatibility (perhaps a cheap 2 in 1).

Also, you should consider approaching canonical about sponsorship. Considering their relationship with amazon there has to be some funding to be found there.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#65

Post by jibla »

mmsimanga wrote: post #56
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #51

The idea of giving is good but it is very hard to substain it over time. Pleople want to give but not in a constant basis and eventually stop. A better model is to join a profit basses organization with a nonprofit and work together to give.

I agree with you. As an African there is also another danger to receiving things, you stop working for them. You begin to expect these things as part of your life but in reality they only exist for as long as those giving have enough money or generosity. I am not saying people shouldn't give but it is a good idea to be aware of some of the long term effects of giving and being a receiver.

I also think we should be conscious in giving. but as Chinese proverb says: Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

So we think that by giving internet connection we don't just give certain things. We try to bring an environment where people can find their passions and interests, discover professions, try out things, leave and try another, acquire relevant information, etc. Internet might be a huge step towards equality of opportunity.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#66

Post by jteppinette »

rhacker wrote: post #61
jteppinette wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@rhacker I don't think its a human right to have clothes though. I don't think anyone should be able to steal your clothes, but I don't think anyone should have to give you clothes either..

> I don't think its a human right to have clothes though. I don't think anyone should be able to steal your clothes, but I don't think anyone should have to give you clothes either.. To think that a "human right to have clothes" means your clothes will be stolen or you will be forced to give clothes is pretty strange. If you are a developer lead at Apple I assume you pay taxes? Those Taxes are fundamentally supportin…

Life, liberty, and property [https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke-political/]

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#67

Post by tguvot »

jibla wrote: post #62
tguvot wrote: post #58

Gamarjoba, I think what you are doing is very important thing but it's not scalable to 2.5b people. The biggest problem for those 2.5b people are: - Availability of network infrastructure. It starts with whatever network backbone and ends with either mobile internet or wifi network. In most cases there is no business case to build out this kind of infrastructure as there is essentially no way to recover investment un…

Gamarjoba:) We've researched this issue thoroughly and the infrastructure is not an issue. While 50% of the world's population lacks internet access only 15% live out of the coverage area of 3/4 G networks. This is actually where the number 2.5 Bn comes from. The main challenge is the affordability of monthly internet fees and of course devices. We actually solve both problems by providing devices and an internet con…

I'll disagree. I worked previously "somewhere" that had yearly budget of tens of millions of dollars in order to tackle this specific issue - bringing internet to people that do not have it. We had extremely good data, most of which not available publicly; dozen(s) of people working solely on identifying scope of problem while other people trying to come up with solutions.

I don't have the data anymore so I can argue with you on exact numbers , but even when you are talking about 3/4g networks, in most of the cases it will be 3g and rolling out 4g is too expensive and backbone wont have enough capacity to serve all the people that are lacking access.

>Electricity might be an issue in some areas but according to our assumptions, more than 160 million secondary students in low and low-middle income countries live in cities and areas where electricity is not an issue.

You cant really just buy enough hardware for everyone. It doesn't work well on scale. See one laptop per child.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#68

Post by jteppinette »

rhacker wrote: post #61
jteppinette wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@rhacker I don't think its a human right to have clothes though. I don't think anyone should be able to steal your clothes, but I don't think anyone should have to give you clothes either..

> I don't think its a human right to have clothes though. I don't think anyone should be able to steal your clothes, but I don't think anyone should have to give you clothes either.. To think that a "human right to have clothes" means your clothes will be stolen or you will be forced to give clothes is pretty strange. If you are a developer lead at Apple I assume you pay taxes? Those Taxes are fundamentally supportin…

Maybe I am strange lol

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#69

Post by jibla »

jzemeocala wrote: post #63
jibla wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. We have tested Ubuntu as well. Still figuring out what the right solutions are. Do you think Ubuntu might be a better option? Or are there any other solutions that might be relevant for us?

I would personally recommend ubuntu. It's also free and unlikely to get viruses. Plus, In my experience from helping the elderly and other computer illiterates get connected, it often has a much gentler learning curve.The main hurdle then would be to find the cheap hardware with decent compatibility (perhaps a cheap 2 in 1). Also, you should consider approaching canonical about sponsorship. Considering their relation…

Got it! Will definitely consider Ubuntu and approach Canonical. Thanks a lot!

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#70

Post by toast0 »

t0astbread wrote: post #17
jibla wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, we started with the used ones, but the maintenance of used devices was a disaster. Chromebooks were cheap, fast, virus-free and with bigger screens (More convenient for education) We buy them from 150-180 USD per unit. But this doesn't mean we' always go with Chromebooks. We always consider any other solutions based on the need of the project

Are Chromebooks really that much cheaper than "regular" Windows or OS-less Laptops? If so, why?

Chromebooks are mass produced devices with a free operating system. This usually makes them cheaper than windows laptops, and the scale makes them cheaper than laptops without an OS.

I think the OS choice also reduces the hardware cost a little bit -- at least windows laptops usually have a bit more hardware to support more standard interfaces. Some of the Chromebooks have i2c keyboards, which I don't think passes WHQL standards, but must be a little less expensive; the ssds are tiny, and sometimes mmc which is slower, but less expensive; the keyboard have fewer buttons which reduces cost a smidge too.

But, more importantly than the hardware cost, Chrome OS is easier than Windows for a novice to manage -- updates are less intrusive, just reboot when it asks and wait about 10 seconds to be ready to work again. There's not as much to mess up, and when you do, it's usually easy to get back to factory fresh.

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