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Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

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Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#41

Post by jteppinette »

rhacker wrote: post #31
jteppinette wrote: post #22

> We believe that Internet access is a human right. I disagree with this. This doesn't event make sense [EDIT: to me]. The internet is simply a very large network of private systems. You don't have a right to access this network, nor do you have a right to force someone to join this network. If your "human rights" can be negated by the power going out, they are quite weak. I am being nit-picky, but I just don't like…

> You don't have a right to access this network, nor do you have a right to force someone to join this network. While I am a hypocrite to suggest this, your statement does come off "god-like" (because I am also doing that here). They are stating a widely held belief that many people agree with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Internet_access > If your "human rights" can be negated by the power going out, they…

> They are stating a widely held belief that many people agree with.

Your reference material has a section titled Critiques of the human right to Internet access.

> If that's the case then ALL human rights are "quite weak"

I believe the issue you bring up is mostly around peoples differing opinion on what a human right is, so I don't exactly disagree with you. I mostly have an issue with this new theme of everything being a "human right". At some point it will be a "human right" to own a Lamborghini and have someone feed me grapes while I lay by a pool (kinda sarcasm).

> B) I don't think anyone said anything about forcing someone onto this network.

If everyone left the network, then it would not exist. Therefore, a human right to the internet requires that people maintain the network.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#42

Post by jibla »

mjevans wrote: post #10
yorwba wrote: post #6

If the aim is to provide internet access to as many people as possible, wouldn't a cheap phone running Android Go or KaiOS be a more efficient use of the money? Any particular reason you went with Chromebooks instead?

My guess as a bystander is that I treat my phone as a media consumption device. Having a fullsized keyboard and at least a "page" of glass seems to be the line to cross for the creation of meaningful content. IE to participate in nuanced discussions rather than narrow focused replies or even just up/down votes (more like a mob mentality).

Agree. This is exactly the main argument of educators in favor of bigger screens and keyboard. Although Chromebooks still lack features for creation (not possible to install some software), students can still create everything that can be done on cloud-based platforms.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#43

Post by monocasa »

jteppinette wrote: post #33
monocasa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone here has access to the court system as a human right, but you better believe the courthouse will be closed if the power goes out too.

Do you not think there were trials before the invention of electricity?

I think that access to fair trials requires infrastructural support, just like access to the Internet does. In both cases infrastructural glitches can temporarily remove access, but declaring them a human right means a focus on making those glitches temporary particularly for the most vulnerable members of our society, among other things.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#44

Post by freehunter »

jteppinette wrote: post #22

> We believe that Internet access is a human right. I disagree with this. This doesn't event make sense [EDIT: to me]. The internet is simply a very large network of private systems. You don't have a right to access this network, nor do you have a right to force someone to join this network. If your "human rights" can be negated by the power going out, they are quite weak. I am being nit-picky, but I just don't like…

>If your "human rights" can be negated by the power going out, they are quite weak.

That's a pretty weak argument. If the power goes out due to a storm, no one is depriving you of your human rights. If the power is cut with the explicit purpose of denying you access to the Internet, that's a different story. The intention behind the statement "Internet access is a human right" is that governments should not have the right to disconnect Internet service in order to oppress their population. It has nothing to do with forcing someone to use the Internet or making sure it's always available no matter what.

Actually I think the entire comment is weak... the Internet is not "a network of private systems", there are plenty of publicly-owned websites. Government websites are just one example, and these government websites contain information of vital importance for many people (like laws, for example).

No one can force anyone into exercising any of their human rights... I have the right to be happy but if I'm not, no one will force me to be happy. I have the right to life, but I'm not arrested if I die. I have the right to freedom of movement, but I'm currently sitting still and the police are nowhere to be found. Human rights aren't things people must do, they're things governments must allow the people to do.

I wouldn't categorize this comment as "nit-picky". I'd categorize it as completely and fundamentally wrong.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#45

Post by jibla »

mruts wrote: post #35

My wife started a school/community center is Africa and we are one of the only places in town with computers and internet you can use for free. It was a rare occasion indeed that anyone wanted to do anything except watch youtube videos. Now that we banned youtube, people honestly aren't really that interested. I'm not saying internet is bad or whatever, it's just that it's not going to change people's lives without a…

Besides connecting students, we run an online mentorship program via Chat, online groups, sometimes phone/ video calls.

First Students receive a link with a "welcome package"-list of most popular and relevant educational platforms which are available in the local language. We also partner with the local EdTech partners who provide their services for free for our students, so if anyone is interested in any platform we teach them how to use it and provide free access. We are also long term partners with Khan Academy and Code.org and actively promote these platforms to the students.

On a weekly basis, we post in an online group different educational content, free offers from our partners and education organizations who provide their courses for free (both online and offline), we post different scholarship opportunities, fellowships, programs, etc.

We plan to provide tailor-made educational content separately to each student according to their interests and challenges. Also thinking to test different models.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#47

Post by rhacker »

jteppinette wrote: post #41
rhacker wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't have a right to access this network, nor do you have a right to force someone to join this network. While I am a hypocrite to suggest this, your statement does come off "god-like" (because I am also doing that here). They are stating a widely held belief that many people agree with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Internet_access > If your "human rights" can be negated by the power going out, they…

> They are stating a widely held belief that many people agree with. Your reference material has a section titled Critiques of the human right to Internet access . > If that's the case then ALL human rights are "quite weak" I believe the issue you bring up is mostly around peoples differing opinion on what a human right is, so I don't exactly disagree with you. I mostly have an issue with this new theme of everything…

> Your reference material has a section titled Critiques of the human right to Internet access.

It also says 83% of the population generally agrees that it should be a right - which is why I said it was widely held. I didn't say it was an absolutely held belief.

> I believe the issue you bring up is mostly around peoples differing opinion on what a human right is, so I don't exactly disagree with you. I mostly have an issue with this new theme of everything being a "human right". At some point it will be a "human right" to own a Lamborghini and have someone feed me grapes while I lay by a pool (kinda sarcasm).

I'm not here to argue rights like lambos and grapes at the pool. To put internet access in that category is quite honestly disheartening. Having or NOT having internet access these days quite literally be the difference causing someone to lose a house, not get a job, not find legal help, be unaware of a disaster - this is not heard to imagine. I just can't put it in the category of grapes at the pool.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#48

Post by jteppinette »

freehunter wrote: post #44
jteppinette wrote: post #22

> We believe that Internet access is a human right. I disagree with this. This doesn't event make sense [EDIT: to me]. The internet is simply a very large network of private systems. You don't have a right to access this network, nor do you have a right to force someone to join this network. If your "human rights" can be negated by the power going out, they are quite weak. I am being nit-picky, but I just don't like…

>If your "human rights" can be negated by the power going out, they are quite weak. That's a pretty weak argument. If the power goes out due to a storm, no one is depriving you of your human rights. If the power is cut with the explicit purpose of denying you access to the Internet, that's a different story. The intention behind the statement "Internet access is a human right" is that governments should not have the…

> Human rights aren't things people must do, they're things governments must allow the people to do.

I agree with you. I think people should be allowed to access the internet. That is different from forcing the government to give everyone a network connected computer [one example].

> Actually I think the entire comment is weak... the Internet is not "a network of private systems", ...

My point here being that the internet is just a large network. I don't have access to the internal network of a company I do not work for, and I don't think I have a human right to that network. If I get blocked by FB/Twitter/[any site/network] have my "human rights" been taken away? I don't believe so.

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#49

Post by jibla »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #40
mruts wrote: post #35

My wife started a school/community center is Africa and we are one of the only places in town with computers and internet you can use for free. It was a rare occasion indeed that anyone wanted to do anything except watch youtube videos. Now that we banned youtube, people honestly aren't really that interested. I'm not saying internet is bad or whatever, it's just that it's not going to change people's lives without a…

> Now that we banned youtube That's a pity. YouTube is a treasure of awesome educational videos, better than any school can be. If only I had YouTube when I was a schoolboy... Cool people explain math (and other subjects) I could never understand but grok instantly this way. I can also hardly imagine a better media spreading cultural progress. It also promotes artistic expression, incl in poor people - have you seen…

You are right Youtube is a real gem, but only if used in a proper way. One of the challenges we have, that right after internet installation students check youtube and for the first-time users, it shows only the most popular content which unfortunately is far from the educational one. That's why we try to navigate students via our online mentorship program (described above) and guide them on how to use the internet (and btw youtube)for education

Re: Show HN: 2.5B people can’t afford internet – need your opinion on our solution

#50

Post by jteppinette »

rhacker wrote: post #47
jteppinette wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are stating a widely held belief that many people agree with. Your reference material has a section titled Critiques of the human right to Internet access . > If that's the case then ALL human rights are "quite weak" I believe the issue you bring up is mostly around peoples differing opinion on what a human right is, so I don't exactly disagree with you. I mostly have an issue with this new theme of everything…

> Your reference material has a section titled Critiques of the human right to Internet access. It also says 83% of the population generally agrees that it should be a right - which is why I said it was widely held. I didn't say it was an absolutely held belief. > I believe the issue you bring up is mostly around peoples differing opinion on what a human right is, so I don't exactly disagree with you. I mostly have a…

> be the difference causing someone to lose a house, not get a job, not find legal help, be unaware of a disaster

All of these problems can be solved without the internet. Also, access to the internet does not absolutely solve these problems.

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