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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#691

Post by jseliger »

dmix wrote: post #224

A small group of people always ruin these things for everyone else. ie, the people who can't handle politics and think the worlds constantly on fire so they think they're justified in ignoring social grace and time/place taboos. The internet news machines have generated many thousands of these people. I feel like they are becoming more popular and giving even less of a shit that other people don't want to be forced t…

True, unfortunately, in many domains: https://jakeseliger.com/2017/04/24/ninety-five-percent-of-pe...

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#693

Post by paulddraper »

oppositelock wrote: post #280
duxup wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me out here. Do you mean "internal political" as "Oh man Jimmy is in charge of gmail now!" (just a made up example of internal politics there) or "Can you belive what the POTUS did!?!?!"? If the latter, I'm a bit surprised ... I can't imagine having that kind of conversation at work. That is absolutely a NO GO zone for me at work.

Definitely the latter - people trying to convince others that their views on war, or abortion, or taxes, or political party are the correct ones. These are also people who are intelligent, educated, and quite arrogant, so the fireworks were pretty spectacular.

It'd be more reasonable (though still not a great idea) if that were water cooler talk. So the biggest possible incident is a handful of people.

When it's conversation forums with thousands of people...critical mass is achieved, and it runs amok.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#695

Post by einhverfr »

gwbas1c wrote: post #599
einhverfr wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU, freedom from discrimination on the basis of political opinion is considered a fundamental right, and is mentioned as such in the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. Private conversations about politics thus is entirely outside the scope of what the company is allowed to care about. Public comments, for example on global email lists, would be a different topic.

> Public comments, for example on global email lists, would be a different topic If I understand Google's stance, that's what it's about.

And to Alphabet's defense, if it is exclusively aimed at disruptive behavior then that's fine. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#696

Post by ssalazar »

LordFast wrote: post #466
jgunsch wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked there for a similar length of time, but more recent (2012 - early 2019). The internal political discourse over that time definitely mirrored the rest of the world: becoming increasingly heated and divisive during 2016 and largely escalating since. On the whole, it felt like it pushed the company in a positive direction --- internal discussions mirroring #metoo led to more visibility of sexual harassment and…

Disclaimer: my comment below is directed at the culture of Google, and following in the train of thought from your comment. It's not directed at your comment or you. Reading this comment just makes me feel baffled. How much arrogance does it take for a bunch of Googlers to assume the belief that they know what is "just" for the rest of the world? An organization(in this case, a for-profit company) created to deliver…

> An organization(in this case, a for-profit company) created to deliver products and services to consumers and advertisers playing politics on the world stage is laughable at best, and downright irresponsible at worst.

Google is one of the largest technology corporations in existence, controlling the flow of information for huge swaths of the world's population. They have no choice but to "play politics" as many of the decisions they make can have tremendous impact on global policy and society.

> Play the right part, do the right job, and let others with the right skills and tools do the same.

No. More and more, technology firms and the individuals within them are realizing their own responsibility to consider the ethical implications of the systems they are building.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#697

Post by concordDance »

munk-a wrote: post #369

From the other side - if the world is on fire but a portion of the population thinks everything is just fine and dandy... is it appropriate for everyone to be politely quite until that portion comes to their own realization that the world is on fire? What if that never happens? I feel like the gun control debate is particularly relevant - whenever a shooting happens one side calmly says "This is unfortunate but unavo…

This reply annoys me.

Gun control? THAT's your example of the world being on fire?

If nothing is done about it 12k Americans a year will die, that isnt really going to have much of an effect in the long run for the vast majority of us. There are plenty of actual "world on fire" debates you could have used, including:

* Climate change

* Nuclear proliferation

* Antibiotic resistance

* Aquifer sustainability

* AGI

* Dystopian trends

* Dysgenic trends

Things that are on the actual "this has potential to kill or drastically reduce quality of life for billions of people" level (even if some are pretty far fetched in my view).

"World on fire" topics do exist, and for some reason they aren't the ones that result in toxicity.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#698

Post by bduerst »

nailer wrote: post #676
bduerst wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google fired Damore for his perpetuating of gender stereotypes. He even confirmed it with the media.

Well yes that's the point: if data perpetuates sex stereotypes then is it immoral to discuss the data?

The answer is yes when the data is cherry picked to fit a narrative.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#699

Post by kyleblarson »

new2628 wrote: post #436
stcredzero wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a fine approach, but unfortunately politics creeps into more and more aspects of life. Do a historical survey of people who tried to suffuse politics completely through the lives of their followers. For completeness, look also at the actions of religions in the same way. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Politics, movements of any kind which demand the entirety of the lives of their…

I surely enjoy wild associations as much as the next guy, but I meant more pedestrian topics such as: - are you eating meat or are you vegetarian? - do you take a car to work or ride a bike or take public transportation? - do you drink tap water or bottled water? - do you send your kids to private or public school? Now try discussing any of these in depth "without politics".

So you basically give them a West Coast virtue signaling strength test?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#700

Post by nickstinemates »

einhverfr wrote: post #572
sarbaz wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should people act in ways that disagree with their sense of justice? Should people be allowed to speak out against things that other people do, but that disagree with their sense of justice? I don't see how you can call it "arrogant" for people to act in accordance with their moral and ethical standards. We don't have the power to force the world do line up with our personal sense of justice. But we do have the power…

I think the problem is that the US has developed for various reasons (including a lack of discussing politics) a series of echo chambers and people don't connect politically beyond their echo chambers. In urban California, among software developers, you are likely to have one or two political views represented at most, and these represent a small racial and class-based cross-section of urban California. The first of…

> In urban California, among software developers, you are likely to have one or two political views represented at most, and these represent a small racial and class-based cross-section of urban California.

I would argue that these are the only ones allowed.

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