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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#681

Post by MFLoon »

magduf wrote: post #531

This is pretty strange to me. I've worked in a bunch of very different places, including Intel Corp. and also defense contractors and US government installations, and people generally stayed away from political discussions unless they were around people they already knew were like-minded. The only place I saw political discussion turn really sour was at Intel when we had a contractor who was extremely religious and c…

Just the existence of any kind of active, noisy global mailing lists seems like an indicator of organizational immaturity, let alone ones catering to political discussion.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#682

Post by dragonwriter »

jdm2212 wrote: post #648
einhverfr wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its worth noting my colleagues and I have very different political views when we talk over lunch but I find it very insightful to see different views and we are all on good terms over it all. And I think we do think about eachother's views and we do try to build common ground, so frankly I find it healthy.

The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. There's a lot more potential for deep disagreement in the US when people talk politics.

> The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries.

It has both fewer signficant dimensions and narrower range on those dimensions; it's much smaller, not bigger.

Also centered further to the right, on the left-right axis that is the most significant axis of variation in the US; the whole range on that axis with any substantive representation in the US is about center-left to the solid right.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#683

Post by stupidthrottle »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #419
josteink wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Bob believes Alice should be put to death because she's a transwoman That’s clearly a straw man. Nobody is having that discussion at work. And death threats are not politics, they are matters which should be reported to the police.

I was responding to the exact argument made in the post above me. Since people are downvoting me, presumably because I used sarcastic humor and HN is populated by people who are just too darn logical for sarcasm,* let me make the point more explicit: no, Bob and Alice aren't literally going to have that conversation at work. I get that. However, even if the work has a strict "no politics" policy, if Bob does have sig…

> Since people are downvoting me ... let me make the point more explicit: no, Bob and Alice aren't literally going to have that conversation at work. I get that.

You were trying to use an outlier, an extremist situation (badly representing the opposing part) to frame a discussion about general principles for politics.

Of course you will get downvoted. It’s not a constructive contribution.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#684

Post by exolymph »

munk-a wrote: post #369

From the other side - if the world is on fire but a portion of the population thinks everything is just fine and dandy... is it appropriate for everyone to be politely quite until that portion comes to their own realization that the world is on fire? What if that never happens? I feel like the gun control debate is particularly relevant - whenever a shooting happens one side calmly says "This is unfortunate but unavo…

Fewer than 2,000 people died in American mass shootings over the past 10 years. https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/116056745085073408...

The problem is that mass shootings are effective terrorism — people freak out about them. But they're not a significant cause of death by any means.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#685

Post by sametmax »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #643
methodover wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If alternative structures worked well then we would've seen them by now Well let’s not go this far. Human civilization has existed for a tiny portion of time, modern civilization even less so. There’s PLENTY of time for better structures to be discovered.

Within current historical and cultural context, legal and technology frameworks etc the dataset is big enough to give some confidence that better structures won’t be found tomorrow or in the next 5 years.

Somebody probably said that just before an innovation is made. Many times.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#686

Post by lapnitnelav »

TheGRS wrote: post #256
cameronbrown wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're being sarcastic/exaggerating, but even so. This is just a perfect example of how polarised politics is today. Society just needs to calm down and evaluate itself instead of bickering over nonsense.

Yes, every meaningful change in society has come to light because everyone calmed down enough.

In the words of the poet Z. de la Rocha, Anger is a gift.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#687

Post by ci5er »

orblivion wrote: post #469
devy wrote: post #428

This article makes it seem like debating politics is a good practices in workplace. It is NOT! Talking politics in workplace is not professional - different political opinions can wreck marriages, it can certainly wreck your job too! Just think about what if your boss is having a completely different political opinions than what you belief. Also any major corporations leaning one side of the political party would imm…

My dad is from Russia and he sees the American taboo about talking politics at work as just lame and pathetic. Like we're too sensitive or something. I think he may have even said it was just fine in the U.S. as well back in the 70s (when it was also okay to smoke in the office) but I'd have to check again. So I gotta wonder if this is generally true or if there are cultural factors.

It was NOT Ok in the 70s.

It was NOT Ok in the 50s even in social settings.

This is kind of not funny (or rather, a bit painful), but it does mock what the US used to be like in the 50s about both political opinions and allowing certain people to have them:

  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
The old "strictures" in conventional US polite society were to never discuss, in open, in any group, at work, at church, or a neighborhood barbeque: religion, politics or money.

EDIT: BTW - to your point about changes around smoking in the office - I left the United States for about 10 years in the mid-80s, and people were having beers (or martinis) with lunch when I left, and then when I got back in the mid-90s - they were not. These things do change, and I am not trying to invalidate that point of yours.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#688

Post by einhverfr »

scarejunba wrote: post #670
einhverfr wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up WL Gore and Associates. They have thrived on a very different company power structure. Or maybe their founder was right and the power structure wasn't different (he thought official power structures were not where the power was held, and therefore dispensed with them in order for unofficial power structures to more easily come to the fore). The problem is that you have to have some forms of effort in coordina…

Well, Google only changed when they reached two orders of magnitude the size of Goretex, so maybe the answer is that Gore just didn't get big enough.

Two orders of magnitude would put them at a million employees?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#689

Post by paulddraper »

jshowa3 wrote: post #498
malvosenior wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The discourse around the James Damore memo, as divisive as it was, felt like it still led to a broader understanding of the negative perspectives women in tech had to deal with constantly. Damore was fired for his contributions to this "conversation". Hardly just. > particularly the ones who felt it was worth staying and using their influence internally to push Google toward creating a more just world. How about ju…

Damore was fired for his contributions to this conversation". Hardly just.* According to what you said in this post, It was completely just as Damore basically wrote a dissertation about things that were completely unrelated to any work done for any Google product. All that work would've been tantamount to a complete waste of company time and could be grounds for a firing. Google users don't care at all about the pol…

> It was completely just as Damore basically wrote a dissertation about things that were completely unrelated

It was a completely inconsistent.

Damore was not fired for debating politically-sensitive HR proposals. Many people were involved in the same conversation, with the same degree of relevance to Google's products.

Damore was fired because his proposal was contrary to the majority.

---

It's possible to maintain both that widespread workplace political discussion is a poor idea, and that Damore was unfairly treated relative to his peers.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#690

Post by einhverfr »

dragonwriter wrote: post #682
jdm2212 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. There's a lot more potential for deep disagreement in the US when people talk politics.

> The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. It has both fewer signficant dimensions and narrower range on those dimensions; it's much smaller , not bigger . Also centered further to the right, on the left-right axis that is the most significant axis of variation in the US; the whole range on that axis with any substantive representation in the US is about ce…

Elizabeth Warren would be center-right in Europe.

Bernie might be center-left depending on country.

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