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Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

reuters.com

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Re: Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

#81

Post by belltaco »

ashelmire wrote: post #30
tathougies wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. American companies would still be allowed to sell to China. The constitution offers pretty much absolute protection when it comes to export tariffs.

That isn't the heart of the issue. The issue is US products being produced in China and sold in the US. We import > 500 billion from China and export under 130 billion to China.

>We import > 500 billion from China and export under 130 billion to China.

It's not so simple as, "Hey, lets pocket 500B - 130B = $370B and put it in the bank or spend in what we want".

First of all, prices will increase, and production will move to other countries.

If you ban imports from other countries, many things will become unaffordable to many people, which creates knock on effects. PCs and Smartphones getting more expensive means fewer people will use them, which means a smaller market for software. People will have less money to spend on, say, restaurants. People living off the $130B of exports will be out of jobs and some will go on unemployment and social welfare. Others will be hired with lesser pay, so will buy less. There will be so many knock on effects beyond this. Tesla is down 4% just today based on new tariffs announced by China for the future.

We are already paying new subsidies to farmers, from taxpayer money that can used to, say, build super fast trains in the US like China has.

https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-trump...

Re: Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

#83

Post by zaroth »

mindthegap wrote: post #22
wendyshu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the headline no it's not actually an order it's just a suggestion...

It's not just the headline. As far as I understand, Trump said what I quoted.

He said what you quoted, but then you implied he ordered companies out of China, which he did not do.

Re: Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

#84

Post by markbnj »

thrill wrote: post #47
cronix wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"immediately start looking" does not equal "ordering companies home."

"hereby ordered" = "hereby ordered"

> "hereby ordered" = "hereby ordered"

Furthermore, doesn't "hereby" mean specifically "this thing that you are now reading/hearing/seeing is the instrument of the order?" In other words is he issuing an order via a tweet?

Re: Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

#85

Post by Simulacra »

Playing devils advocate a little with some of the comments, I think this is a long time coming for China. The trade imbalances, current manipulation, and other elements of Chinese governance that has allowed them to get away with so much, for so long, has reached a zenith. If previous administrations of all stripes had done more to protect American interests, perhaps the strong measures of today would not have been necessary.

Re: Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

#86

Post by tathougies »

coliveira wrote: post #45
tathougies wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he cannot, but he can say whatever he likes, as we've seen. The constitution enables the institution of arbitrary import tariffs, but it offers absolute protection to American companies. Neither the president nor Congress is legally allowed to tax exports (Article 1, Section 9, Clause 5)

This is not "absolute protection". American companies import much more than they export, so if he can't do whatever he wants to imports, there is no economic freedom.

There is no economic freedom when it comes to import. That's a founding principle of the country that no one should be surprised by.

Re: Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

#88

Post by jefe_ »

The U.S. business community decided years ago that manufacturing should move overseas. Ever since, the entire U.S. economy has been centered around the assumption of cheap imports, with the exception of one key product: microprocessors, a product where the U.S. has long retained dominance. This dominance provided an opportunity for balance in the U.S. trade relationship with China, but the leverage was never really used to truly demand changes to trade practices. Now, the U.S. is starting to wonder if moving everything to China was such a good idea, but due to Chinese microprocessor advancements, the U.S. lacks that key trade leverage item they had to realistically negotiate, and many of their traditional 'negotiating' techniques won't work with China.

The U.S. can't go to war with China.

The U.S. can't ban Chinese imports.

The U.S. can't overthrow Chinese Government.

Just as U.S. has built their whole economy around imports, China has done the same with exports, they need to put people in jobs and keep the exports flowing, so they have no real incentive to rework a favorable deal.

So really the U.S. is relegated to performing a Symbolic Trade war: Declare China a Currency Manipulator, Stir the pot in Hong Kong, Requesting Companies return to the U.S.

All the while, the markets are pretending the Trade War is real, delivering massive swings for large investors capable to profiting from the volatility.

Re: Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

#89

Post by markbnj »

belltaco wrote: post #81
ashelmire wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't the heart of the issue. The issue is US products being produced in China and sold in the US. We import > 500 billion from China and export under 130 billion to China.

>We import > 500 billion from China and export under 130 billion to China. It's not so simple as, "Hey, lets pocket 500B - 130B = $370B and put it in the bank or spend in what we want". First of all, prices will increase, and production will move to other countries. If you ban imports from other countries, many things will become unaffordable to many people, which creates knock on effects. PCs and Smartphones getting…

There are also a lot of U.S. citizens who make a living working in roles that are part of that china->U.S. supply chain. Lots of potential unforeseen consequences that I'm not qualified to assess. But if you had an ideological desire to, for example, roll back a half century of increasing globalization in an attempt to bring back the halcyon days of stable, high paying U.S. manufacturing jobs then you might in your private views be willing to accept a couple of decades of suffering to get there. Of course you'd also have to believe that restoring U.S. manufacturing would bring back those production jobs, and not just sell a lot of robots.

Re: Trump orders U.S. firms out of China after Beijing sets new tariffs

#90

Post by markbnj »

zaroth wrote: post #78
mindthegap wrote: post #5

> “Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.” What a weird tone. Is that a thing in the US? Can the president (legally) order companies "home"? Doesn't sound like "land of the free" to me.

At this point people should really understand how to read a statement from Trump. It actually is important to read all the words. “Hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative” does not mean he is trying to say companies must cease importing from China, even if that’s what the headline will read tomorrow. It simply says that companies need to start looking for alternatives to China. Trump is saying…

In what world does "hereby ordered" typically precede a bit of friendly advice?

"All my relatives are hereby ordered to depart a day early for the annual Christmas gathering, as storms are predicted for the I-80 corridor."

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