China’s assault on Cathay Pacific • Hacker News Board

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#101

Post by llIIlIlIllIIlIl » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

eximius wrote: post #94

llIIlIlIllIIlIl wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine knowing that your people are fighting for freedom from CPC rule and mainlanders flooding into HK, taking your jobs and housing and driving up prices for essential goods. Then you get a group of obnoxious and oblivious mainlanders heading to HK on a luxury spending holiday demanding this and that from the flight hostesses. Now imagine being an HK Cathay cabin crew member making not so great pay and living in t…

You seem to be asking about an unlikely hypothetical for the sole purpose of legitimizing the actions taken, making the risk seem plausible.

Do you think the above scenario is completely implausible? If so, why?

Please don't make assumptions about my motives.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#102

Post by partiallypro » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:06 PM UTC

jsnider3 wrote: post #97

This probably wouldn't have happened if America had decent leadership.

China has been doing this sort of thing well before the Trump administration. People are just now noticing the trend.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#103

Post by cmrdporcupine » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:08 PM UTC

Varcht wrote: post #21

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't say "the west" because I think it's really "capitalism", but Global capitalism created this situation by deepening trade relationships with China to the point that we're all dependent on them to the point that there's very little leverage over their international behaviour. Look at how the PRC is behaving against Canada right now. Illegal torture-like detention of two of innocent Canadian citizens in China, i…

I think there was some hope that capitalism would bring about democracy. It hasn't quite worked out (yet?).

Why would you think that an economic system based on minority control over (often formerly public) resources would bring about a political system based on majority entitlement?

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#104

Post by notyourday » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:09 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #77

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolute bullshit. If Western countries had refused to trade with China for human-rights reasons, we'd be hearing accusations of economic imperialism! Now we're responsible for their ultra-nationalist authoritarian capitalism because we don't impose our imperial authority on them?

See anyone saying anything against Western countries for not trading with Iran, Venezuela, or North Korea?

It is a rather popular position among the American left, especially the one represented by Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and AOC.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#105

Post by FabHK » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

wendyshu wrote: post #98

groundlogic wrote: post #78

https://www.newsweek.com/cathay-ceo-refused-name-hong-kong-p... > The Taiwan News claimed that Cathay Pacific CEO Rupert Hogg's decision to resign last week came after he refused to name names to the Chinese government when he was asked to provide a list of employees who were involved in the Hong Kong protests. > China's Civil Aviation Administration ordered Cathay to provide a list of employees who were involved in…

(Some say this version of events is an untrue rumor.)

Yeah, I'd love to see some independent verification of this story. It's lovely, ben trovato, but I have seen it only sourced to some dodgy WhatsApp groups or Facebook posts or so. It is certainly not inconceivable, and frankly, if it's true, the fact that Hogg doesn't go around and flaunt it makes me think even more highly of him. But I just don't know whether it's true.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#106

Post by rhegart » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #90

throwaway2048 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, any western company that thinks the Chinese government is going to allow them to have a large market share in China long term is straight up delusional (or thinking so short term they don't care at all) Company after company has been raided for IP and forced out of China, stop falling for the siren song.

Apple still has a large market share in China. Maybe Samsung just sucks and couldn’t compete against Huawei? Only reason Huawei hasn’t beat out Samsung in the US is because of anti-Huawei sentiment in the US.

That’s not true...Huawei stole from Nortel and it’s just that tech initially. Samsung was doing great before the forced anti Samsung protests (Huawei was already 1 at the time).

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#107

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#108

Post by theseadroid » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

chronic829 wrote: post #92

theseadroid wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potentially because people have different understanding of what a free and fair society is.

> Potentially because people have different understanding of what a free and fair society is. Simple. Give people a choice which society they're allowed to live in. China currently does not do that.

Totally agree. My question is which country does do that? I have voted once by moving. But I still don't have the choice to live in a society that I think is free and fair.

I wish I can live in a society where inequality is minimal, where people work and innovate not because of money, but because they enjoy their work and enjoy innovation. I wish I and my fellow citizens can have universal health and dental care, free higher education. I wish a political system without bribing disguised as lobbying, without innovation-killing monopoly. I wish we have similar chance of being happy irrelevant of how rich our parents are. A place where mental illness people are treated, instead of being free to be on the street. Where I can freely roam the city at any hour without the fear of being robbed or raped. Where the urban/transit design makes people free from using cars if they feel not like to. Where I don't have to work as a housing slave.

Now, if my view of a free and fair society is a majority view, why there's isn't one that I can go? If my view is a minority one, then I still don't have the choice in a democracy isn't it?

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#109

Post by FabHK » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:15 PM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #96

throwaway2048 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was much easier to move somewhere in the 19th century if you had the money. Its essentially impossible to move to another 1st world country without years (or decades) of process + usually a highly valued university degree these days

Doesn't matter. imo Chinese people can still adapt. It's part of the culture. My family came to the US as illegal aliens with no money and poor education (their degrees weren't of much use). We still made it work. I know it's anecdotal, but there are a lot of anecdotes throughout Asia, Europe, the Americas, Africa, and even in the Middle East (it was surreal when I met a Chinese guy from Saudi Arabia who was looking…

Don't understand why GP is downvoted. Of course Chinese people (like many others) can adapt, but how are you going into a country and stay there legally? For most people, asylum is hardly an option (though Germany has granted asylum to several leaders of the HK protests). If you don't go via asylum, you have to go via normal immigration routes, and they are normally either investment or skills based these days - you need lots of money or excellent education. You cannot just go and live in any country you want anymore (for most people).

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#110

Post by fucking_tragedy » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #64

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protesters are more working class than the richer HKers with multiple passports. Sure, they can leave, but it is much harder for them to establish themselves in a new country. They can buy a plane ticket, but then what?

They can do what the Chinese have done since the 19th century: move and adapt. It's what my family did. Easier said than done, but I feel it's pretty ingrained now when you can even find Chinese families in places like Africa.

The pathway for foreigners to come into most countries is through a visa process, which are capital investment, work or asylum based.

For example, in the US an investment of $500k (will be $900k later this year) in certain businesses will land foreign individuals a green card. Otherwise, they'll need to come in through a family or work visa, latter of which can take years and has high barriers to entry, like requiring sponsorship or a specialized degree.

Those without means are going to have a hard time leaving the country legally.