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In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

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Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#91

Post by rdtwo »

phil248 wrote: post #47
koolba wrote: post #12

> “You’ve got a guy shooting heroin on the street, and the cop is supposed to say, ‘You O.K.?’” grumbled one law enforcement officer in Seattle. (In fact, an officer would typically confiscate the heroin, admonish the user and move on.) Some residents worry that when the city ignores its own laws on the books and tolerates people openly abusing narcotics, it takes a step toward incivility that will eventually result…

What does confiscating an addict's heroin accomplish? As far as I can tell, all you've done is make a desperate addict far more desperate than they were a moment ago. The situation is only made worse.

Well it prevents the ambulance from having to administer narcan an hour or 2 later

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#92

Post by entropea »

koolba wrote: post #12

> “You’ve got a guy shooting heroin on the street, and the cop is supposed to say, ‘You O.K.?’” grumbled one law enforcement officer in Seattle. (In fact, an officer would typically confiscate the heroin, admonish the user and move on.) Some residents worry that when the city ignores its own laws on the books and tolerates people openly abusing narcotics, it takes a step toward incivility that will eventually result…

I've seen plenty of people shooting drugs in Seattle. So what? As long as they're not out attacking people or giving it to kids or something, I could care less what they do to themselves.

Seattle has a different mindset, it always has, its just the new Amazon & Tech population is trying to change the culture.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#93

Post by [deleted] »

empath75 wrote: post #39
nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

[deleted]

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#94

Post by jdpedrie »

empath75 wrote: post #39
nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

> Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s.

And most cities are worlds better to live in than they were in the 1980s. Why would you want to go back?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#95

Post by nostrebored »

allana wrote: post #32
nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

Yet "Moms for Seattle" can't be bothered to take a real photo of homelessness affecting Seattle's parks :c Those advocating for harsher handling of homelessness in Seattle have repeatedly shown themselves to be incompetent and callous. It'd be great if they could make an effort, like actually voting, rather than phoning it in and throwing money at blatantly photoshopped mailers.

Yeah, this minimizing comment and ones like it are one of the reasons I left Seattle to live in Cape Town, a city with one of the highest percentage of homeless people in the world. Guess what? I feel safer in parks here.

Volunteer park is fine, and some of the parks up the hill are fine, but I've seen multiple children get pricked with used needless and I've been threatened by people in the park. I've been on the bus with my son with people openly smoking meth. I've been on the bus with my son where a man was punched in the throat for being Indian.

I don't know how you can live in that city and do anything without being exposed to this.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#96

Post by ndarwincorn »

> “You’ve got a guy shooting heroin on the street, and the cop is supposed to say, ‘You O.K.?’” grumbled one law enforcement officer in Seattle.

As progressive as some are here, the NIMBYism (see other locals that this opinion piece has riled up in the thread) and bad apples on the police force spoiling the whole bunch are just as bad as anywhere else.

Another anecdote to add to the quote: walking up 12th Ave (Cap Hill) midday on a Sunday, some friends and I passed by a dude sleeping or passed out on the sidewalk and two oncoming walking cops simultaneously. One looked down and asked, "rough night?" and laughed with his partner.

In case it's not clear, this wasn't a friendly offer of assistance, this was a drive by insult (they didn't break stride at all) that made it clear that if it weren't for progressive laws about occupying public space they'd be violently removing the guy from the sidewalk.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#97

Post by cat199 »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #8

> In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs. It is relying less on the criminal justice toolbox to deal with hard drugs and more on the public health toolbox. America's puritanical urges result in more self-harm than anything else. So much of the way our nation is structured is based on some ancient idea that you have to live clean and work hard in order to get to heaven. That is combined with a sen…

.. and so further, the pre-determined dualism argues, if you aren't up to being 'perfect', you obvously must be a 'bad person', creating an internal self-shame which can't easily be dealt with, other than conforming to the 'bad' archetype..

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#98

Post by CPLX »

empath75 wrote: post #39
nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

When people write responses like this I wonder if they’ve ever been to New York City. We don’t really have comparable problems.

For me visiting LA, SF or Seattle is jaw dropping. I totally reject this idea that these situations are just inevitable.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#99

Post by awakeasleep »

grawprog wrote: post #29
psychometry wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supervised consumption sites would go a long way toward fixing the needle problem.

We have safe injection sites up here in Vancouver, you still find used needles lying around everywhere, depending where you go, only you also find the small saline packs and disposable spoons from the injection sites lying around with the used needles. The police don't really seem to care. I've watched a couple of officers find a small pile of used needles at one of the skytrain stations, they laughed to each other s…

Nothing concrete, but often calls to complain make it into a tally or database that can be cited by a politician looking to change things.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#100

Post by crawfordcomeaux »

koolba wrote: post #87
crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective promotes traumatizing systems. You are therefore a danger to yourself and society. If you are locked up as a result of this, will the reeducation take? ----------------- Thought experiment aside, you don't know what other people need and forcing your ideas onto them is how we get into these messes in the first place. Authoritarianism isn't a healing modality.

> Your perspective promotes traumatizing systems. You are therefore a danger to yourself and society. > If you are locked up as a result of this, will the reeducation take? Ha! If offending people was illegal I'd have been in prison a long time ago. > Thought experiment aside, you don't know what other people need and forcing your ideas onto them is how we get into these messes in the first place. I'm not forcing my…

You get to vote with your thoughts, actions, and words on the daily.

I don't support unjust laws. If you do, cool. It's still authoritarianism.

And nobody's forcing you to put up with it, as evidenced by you holding a mindset of not putting up with it. Acceptance is a choice and you are allowed to not choose it, as you currently demonstrate.

Just because the law makers haven't yet criminalized your lack of compassion doesn't mean it'll be justice if they do and then come for you. So why support unjust laws pointed toward others?

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