Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#371

Post by maxaf » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #297

rollinDyno wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To these people it must. They are aware they're disrupting the workplace but they do it because they have a sense of urgency and responsibility. They are willing to break ties with their fellow coworkers because they carry a larger social mission.

That's an interesting point - especially when it comes to the urgency a lot of people feel when considering climate change. I feel like part of the partisan leak into the workplace might be due to the lack of responsible governance that most Americans are feeling right now - since the entities responsible for fixing the big problems are out to lunch everyone is feeling a need to try and help solve those problems them…

Most of this political fervor is simple grandstanding. If these people really, truly cared about the issues they advocate, they'd have abandoned their cushy jobs at Google and gone on to make a real difference.

I fully agree that the American consumerist lifestyle has run its course, and has done tremendous damage to the planet. However, those who yell the most loudly about it should also be the ones to quit it first. Go live on a self-sustaining farm in Montana and show the rest of us how it's done. Until then, stop disrupting the office: people are trying to work in order to make ends meet.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#372

Post by simonsarris » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

rollinDyno wrote: post #332

dmix wrote: post #224

A small group of people always ruin these things for everyone else. ie, the people who can't handle politics and think the worlds constantly on fire so they think they're justified in ignoring social grace and time/place taboos. The internet news machines have generated many thousands of these people. I feel like they are becoming more popular and giving even less of a shit that other people don't want to be forced t…

I hear you, but have you considered that the world's actually on fire? Perhaps you wouldn't notice because you don't live in the Amazon. I don't mean that seriously, but it does serve a point. How can you tell if people are just ranting "because of the internet" and not because they are suffering and think your political inaction is contributing to their pains? Because of your comment I will try to be more cautious a…

You're proving his point. The Amazon is experiencing a more or less average amount of fire during its dry season as farmers clear/maintain cropland like they do every year. However, the internet media has turned this into sensationalism that captures people like you and turns them into doomsayers.

From nasa.gov:

> As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the average in comparison to the past 15 years.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-bra...

Things are not as bad as you think they are, or as bad as crappy internet news sites want you to think they are.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#373

Post by munk-a » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #356

damnyou wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with statements like this is that not choosing sides is exactly as political as choosing sides. There is no such thing as ignoring politics — it's an essential part of the human experience, so any organization must grapple with it.

No it’s not. Where did this stupid notion come from that everything neatly fits into two sides

Oh, I know this one! From the broken political system that forces the optimal play to be a contest of two parties.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#374

Post by manfredo » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #366

manfredo wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the memo before reading the media coverage. I was very surprised at how controversial it was. It's claims were pretty modest: it did not claim that women were any less capable than men at technology, and it repeatedly stated that innate differences likely do not account for all of the disparity between men and women in tech. All it argued was that just because a disparity exists we should not assume that it is…

Ok, now go re-read Google's official response. Note that they did not respond to "we should not assume that it is evidence of discrimination, and that policies designed to engineer an outcome closer to 50/50 are likely creating discrimination"

Right they cited "perpetuating harmful gender stereotypes". From which we can infer that Google believes that claiming that absent any discrimination or social pressure women would not work in tech at the same rates as men as "perpetuating gender stereotypes".

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#375

Post by t0astbread » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #364

t0astbread wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "privilege" here is that banning discussions about politics can be used as a tool to silence the opposition of the current status quo. * edit: changed "competition" to "opposition"

It does not silence anyone, it just means that their speech needs to take place outside the workplace. In my experience, most people who complain that curbing political discussion in the workplace amounts to silencing them have views that are well in line with the status quo at the company.

I meant "silencing" in general. Of course you're free to talk about what you want in your free time.

In the context of work "silencing" could mean preventing workers from raising (valuable) concerns about the ethics of their work.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#376

Post by new2628 » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

apple4ever wrote: post #338

stcredzero wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Google for quite a while, 2005-2013, and even then, the internal political discussion was pretty toxic, but a lot smaller in scope since there are far fewer people. It sounds like the work culture at Google has rediscovered the emergent factors which gave rise to the traditional cultural strictures against talking about money, politics, and religion. Good science is repeatable. Given that Google is arguab…

Great points. There are plenty of areas to discuss politics, and at work doesn't have to be one of them. I've studiously avoided talking to anybody at work about politics, as it usually only serves to anger people if you don't agree. I've had a successful career of doing that.

That sounds like a fine approach, but unfortunately politics creeps into more and more aspects of life, hardly any topic remains apolitical. Like that quote "you may not be interested in war, but ..."

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#377

Post by dgudkov » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #17

Why shouldn’t employees of the company with the goal of organizing all the worlds information debate politics? Everything is political. Especially information.

Because in theory, a debate is a thoughtful discussion where opponents are respectful to opinions of each other and have the common goal of finding the truth.

In reality, political debating at workplace quickly becomes just ugly.

And for companies like Google it's also costly, because media adore leaked scandals in big corporations.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#378

Post by skybrian » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

rollinDyno wrote: post #332

dmix wrote: post #224

A small group of people always ruin these things for everyone else. ie, the people who can't handle politics and think the worlds constantly on fire so they think they're justified in ignoring social grace and time/place taboos. The internet news machines have generated many thousands of these people. I feel like they are becoming more popular and giving even less of a shit that other people don't want to be forced t…

I hear you, but have you considered that the world's actually on fire? Perhaps you wouldn't notice because you don't live in the Amazon. I don't mean that seriously, but it does serve a point. How can you tell if people are just ranting "because of the internet" and not because they are suffering and think your political inaction is contributing to their pains? Because of your comment I will try to be more cautious a…

I think even in wartime, people don't want to talk about the war all the time?

Also, there is a difference between specific calls to action and gripes that someone ought to do something. Some complaints are more useful than others. It seems possible to tell the difference?

Political discussions are an important component of Internet addiction and we shouldn't be naive about the bad effects of large amounts of low quality conversation in distracting us from more important stuff.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#379

Post by d1zzy » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #97

dvtrn wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if your place of work has a hand and a demonstrably relevant position in a lot of global political discussions?

That's really the crux of the issue. I agree that people should probably leave most of their personal beliefs at home... unless it's something that directly related to what the company is doing. So Google employees are supposed to just shut up or leave?

No, what in my opinion they should do is:

1. use designated/official channels to report such issues (ex. talk to their manager or their HR representative or even bring it up at TGIF)

2. if #1 fails they have a choice: continue working or walk away. Nobody is forcing them to work for a company that doesn't listen to them for issues they deeply care about (presumably)

A company is not a democracy. There should of course be plenty of channels to get feedback up the chain but the decision is ultimately that of those hired to make such decisions, not of software engineers hired to do something else entirely.