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In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

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Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#41

Post by allana »

throwaway827364 wrote: post #35
psychometry wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supervised consumption sites would go a long way toward fixing the needle problem.

How? Junkies and other folks who throw needles on the street when there’s a trash can like 5 feet away will actually make appointments to stop at these consumption sites? Who pays for this? The city of Seattle makes a mess because of their extremist policies of not enforcing laws so let’s raise taxes to make up for it?

Please cite how Seattle's policy of not locking people up to rot in prison is extremist.

You had a viable argument right up until that point!

Edit: Thanks for the bot downvotes! Going from +2 to -1 in the span of a minute on two separate comments is a bit of a red flag :P

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#42

Post by magashna »

taurath wrote: post #4

Interesting take on the situation - one key difference is I don’t feel any less safe now than 10 years ago walking around. I DO see more “open” use, and people walking around obviously on something, especially by the homeless (which makes sense even if they’re not using at a higher level). I don’t see the social services much though. IMO they could use more visibility. The prevailing opinion seems like we do “nothing…

The article mentions how it's difficult to reallocate the money saved on the court/prison system to the public health needs. Imagine what could be done if the same amount of money going towards imprisoning someone was instead spent on social services. Instead its easier for our politicians to stay "rah-rah" on punitive action.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#43

Post by thatswrong0 »

throwaway827364 wrote: post #27

This article is disingenuous at best. I don’t support the war on drugs, but Seattle’s handling of the situation isn’t close to a model for other cities. As someone who lived here all my life, it’s been a complete disaster. I’m frankly really disappointed in the NYTimes for publishing this garbage. He doesn’t go into the negatives of what the policies in Seattle has done to the city until so far later in the article.…

Sounds just like SF, and it's a large part of the reason I want to leave the west coast entirely and go somewhere with more sane policies.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#44

Post by ChuckMcM »

allana wrote: post #22
taurath wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any statistics to back that up (violence rate)? I don’t feel like anecdotes make for good conversation here.

They don't have statistics to back their position, this attitude of not working from the data we have is such an issue that it has become local satire in Seattle: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most...

I like The Needling's tag line, Seattle's only Real Fake News.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#46

Post by nikanj »

nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

It’s only war if both sides are actively fighting. Seattle ended the war on drugs.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#47

Post by phil248 »

koolba wrote: post #12

> “You’ve got a guy shooting heroin on the street, and the cop is supposed to say, ‘You O.K.?’” grumbled one law enforcement officer in Seattle. (In fact, an officer would typically confiscate the heroin, admonish the user and move on.) Some residents worry that when the city ignores its own laws on the books and tolerates people openly abusing narcotics, it takes a step toward incivility that will eventually result…

What does confiscating an addict's heroin accomplish? As far as I can tell, all you've done is make a desperate addict far more desperate than they were a moment ago. The situation is only made worse.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#48

Post by diydsp »

koolba wrote: post #12

> “You’ve got a guy shooting heroin on the street, and the cop is supposed to say, ‘You O.K.?’” grumbled one law enforcement officer in Seattle. (In fact, an officer would typically confiscate the heroin, admonish the user and move on.) Some residents worry that when the city ignores its own laws on the books and tolerates people openly abusing narcotics, it takes a step toward incivility that will eventually result…

> What non-drug user would want to live in a town where someone shooting heroin in public is not removed from the street? I know I wouldn't.

It really depends on the broader systematic picture.

If drug addicts fear consequences to the point of arming themselves and attacking strangers to avoid arrest and maintain supply, that's bad.

If they're able to demonstrate victimless crime, get their gear confiscated and force to keep it to themselves in their own homes or ask for help from the community without threat of incarceration, that's good.

So we really have to look at how it plays out in reality. It's not enough to make a black or white decision based on a hypothetical scenario. Furthermore, we need to consider the impact of judgement by police and rehab operators. Familiarity with the individuals and difficult-to-quantify details of each scenario may make the decision between admonishment, incarceration and forced rehab.

That said, these don't have to be ambiguous clouds of blurry judgement. We can prototype decision trees and debate about them.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#49

Post by nikanj »

empath75 wrote: post #39
nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

In the 80s people actually reported petty crime, and expected something to come out of it.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#50

Post by allana »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #44
allana wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have statistics to back their position, this attitude of not working from the data we have is such an issue that it has become local satire in Seattle: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most...

I like The Needling's tag line, Seattle's only Real Fake News.

They produce some great articles :3
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