Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#281

Post by dragontamer » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

Kalium wrote: post #274

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does action include hateful speech? Not being facetious just genuinely wanting to know. I've always found it difficult to dissociate views vs actions when it comes to espoousing a hateful view.

Someone, at some point, probably regardes some of your views as hateful. With that in mind, how much would you like to be subject to prior restraint based on someone else's internal emotional understanding of your views? Generally it's worth dividing hateful words from hateful actions. Saying something racist in hateful, and might have political or social consequences, but wise societies are aware that getting into t…

> Someone, at some point, probably regardes some of your views as hateful. With that in mind, how much would you like to be subject to prior restraint based on someone else's internal emotional understanding of your views?

How does ME accepting tolerance cause the OTHER guy to be tolerant as well?

I don't swing the first punch during fights, but I'll absolutely punch back. That doesn't change the fact that fights happen to break out. One day, you will find yourself up against an intolerant person, and your only defense is to also be intolerant against them.

That's just the facts.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#282

Post by ixtli » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

Meanwhile, google shuts down more than 200 youtube channels that criticize the hong kong protests. (N.B.: I do not oppose them, im just pointing out how hilariously hypocritical it is for an organization at the center of global politics to be telling its employees not to debate politics.)

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#283

Post by defen » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

the-pigeon wrote: post #140

wutbrodo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so hilariously wrong that I don't even know where to start. Google's culture was predicated on hiring intelligent, emotionally-continent adults. Free discussion of politics wasn't banned during my time there because everyone was capable of understanding precisely the opposite of what you're describing: that differing views on the world exist and are attributable to more than just whether someone is a good or…

I've worked for a lot of small startups some mid-sized companies in California over the last decade. I would never ever share any views that are non-liberal because when I've seen anyone else do it it didn't go well for them at all. And I'm not at work to change people's political views so there's no reason to take the risk. I don't think this is a new shift at all. I think it's typical when you have smart but insecu…

> I would never ever share any views that are non-liberal because when I've seen anyone else do it it didn't go well for them at all. And I'm not at work to change people's political views so there's no reason to take the risk.

Reminds me of https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/resource/the-power-of-th...

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#284

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

lreeves wrote: post #259

duxup wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me out here. Do you mean "internal political" as "Oh man Jimmy is in charge of gmail now!" (just a made up example of internal politics there) or "Can you belive what the POTUS did!?!?!"? If the latter, I'm a bit surprised ... I can't imagine having that kind of conversation at work. That is absolutely a NO GO zone for me at work.

I understand your perspective but I'm honestly very surprised given your example. I'm in Canada and the things Trump does and says are still present in conversations nearly every day.

[deleted]

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#285

Post by skybrian » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

didip wrote: post #253

I bet majority of Google employees are taking a deep sigh of relief now. It must be suffocating being surrounded with political talks at work when one is trying to do their job well.

I left a few years ago, but it was more like internal politics was a fascinating addiction that some people are better than others at ignoring.

Sort of like reading Hacker News.

I wonder if memegen is shut down yet?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#286

Post by wutbrodo » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

the-pigeon wrote: post #140

wutbrodo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so hilariously wrong that I don't even know where to start. Google's culture was predicated on hiring intelligent, emotionally-continent adults. Free discussion of politics wasn't banned during my time there because everyone was capable of understanding precisely the opposite of what you're describing: that differing views on the world exist and are attributable to more than just whether someone is a good or…

I've worked for a lot of small startups some mid-sized companies in California over the last decade. I would never ever share any views that are non-liberal because when I've seen anyone else do it it didn't go well for them at all. And I'm not at work to change people's political views so there's no reason to take the risk. I don't think this is a new shift at all. I think it's typical when you have smart but insecu…

I'm not making any statement about "small and mid sized California companies". I'm talking specifically about Google. The more time I spend away from there, the more I realize what an incredibly unique place Google is (or perhaps, was).

> I think it's typical when you have smart but insecure people which is most software engineers.

The distribution of "techies" has changed dramatically as everyone else in the world discovered how much money was in it, but this couldn't be further from the truth as far as classic tech culture goes. Perhaps they were "smart but insecure", but it manifested as a hyperindividualist, chaotic marketplace of ideas culture, precisely because you could be fairly confident that the people you were talking with were intelligent enough to handle disagreement without thinking of everyone as heretics, infidels, or faithful to the dogma.

It's the mainstreaming of tech, and the influx of people more in thrall to social conformity over independent thought that's tempered tech culture's famously anarchic tendencies. (I know this is a little reductive but I don't want to write an essay in a single comment. If you have a particular complaint about the way I phrased this, I'd be happy to clarify).

I should note that, to the extent that I'm focusing on the left's abandonment of liberalism, it's because I am and always have been a left-liberal, and most of my milieu has been as well. I hope it's not controversial that the right is abandoning liberalism too: I just don't have exposure to spaces where they're culturally powerful enough to illiberally enforce their dominance.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#287

Post by shshehe » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

Kalium wrote: post #135

SkyBelow wrote: post #64

>I think they just overestimated the ability of their employees to respect each other when they hold differing world views. I think this can be quite difficult to do just because of the political views involved. For example, how should a gay man respect a colleague who honestly thinks that homosexuality should be punished with death. In such a case, I would say that even asking the first individual to tolerate, much…

Tolerance isn't considered a virtue because it's easy. Tolerance is a virtue because it's difficult . It requires us to put up with people who may adhere to worldviews we find utterly alien or hold views we find abhorrent. It's easy to come up with an example and find yourself thinking "It's unreasonable to tolerate that!". Instead, consider asking yourself why people a century ago might tolerate views you think of a…

Tolerance is not inherently a virtue. Sometimes tolerance is moral weakness.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#288

Post by weberc2 » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

rollinDyno wrote: post #238

refurb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If I'm working on a team that is rolling out a new Google drive feature, I really don't need to hear you talk about why drinking straws are a phallic symbol and used by the patriarchy to keep woman down. We have work to do.

Everyone here is talking about what _should_ happen. Yes, the workplace _should_ be serene and work _should_ proceed in harmony. But there are other things that aren't proceeding the way people think _should_ be happening, which they deem to be far more important. Which is why you're seeing more people willing to disrupt the workplace, which they consider a minor obligation relative to the bigger picture.

Yup, and Google is letting those people know that there may now be consequences for their disruption. If those people still think their disruption worthwhile, they're free to proceed.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#289

Post by duxup » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

lreeves wrote: post #259

duxup wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me out here. Do you mean "internal political" as "Oh man Jimmy is in charge of gmail now!" (just a made up example of internal politics there) or "Can you belive what the POTUS did!?!?!"? If the latter, I'm a bit surprised ... I can't imagine having that kind of conversation at work. That is absolutely a NO GO zone for me at work.

I understand your perspective but I'm honestly very surprised given your example. I'm in Canada and the things Trump does and says are still present in conversations nearly every day.

>I'm in Canada and the things Trump does and says are still present in conversations nearly every day.

I'm not sure what you mean but generally in my life... I actually don't have a lot of "political" conversations every day. More often than not, none at all.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#290

Post by TheGRS » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

ashwinaj wrote: post #133

Finally common sense prevails! Get to work on time, eat your free lunch, work, go home. To those of you who disagree; if you want to "make a difference" take a cue from Gandhi, Mandela, Martin Luther king Jr. etc. Mahama Gandhi didn't work for the East India company while simultaneously fighting for freedom. If you are serious about it put your money where your mouth is and stop being empty vessels.

I have a feeling that many of the activists who were just protesters alongside those big names didn't quit their jobs to pursue of lifetime of pure activism. I'm not sure why having a job precludes you from being political.