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The New Treasures of Pompeii

smithsonianmag.com

11–19 of 19 posts

Re: The New Treasures of Pompeii

#11
I found this part to be extremely interesting.

> Scratched lightly, but legibly, on an unfinished wall of a house that was being refurbished when the volcano blew is a banal notation in charcoal: “in [d]ulsit pro masumis esurit[ions],” which roughly translates as “he binged on food.” While not listing a year, the graffito, likely scrawled by a builder, cites “XVI K Nov”—the 16th day before the first of November on the ancient calendar, or October 17 on the modern one. That’s nearly two months after August 24, the fatal eruption’s official date, which originated with a letter by Pliny the Younger, an eyewitness to the catastrophe, to the Roman historian Tacitus 25 years later and transcribed over the centuries by monks.

> Massimo Osanna, Pompeii’s general director and mastermind of the project, is convinced that the notation was idly doodled a week before the blast. “This spectacular find finally allows us to date, with confidence, the disaster,” he says. “It reinforces other clues pointing to an autumn eruption: unripe pomegranates, heavy clothing found on bodies, wood-burning braziers in homes, wine from the harvest in sealed jars. When you reconstruct the daily life of this vanished community, two months of difference are important. We now have the lost piece of a jigsaw puzzle.”

Inscription: https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/b-AKU2VJ_IfsLSz6vS4uxPtuRAQ=/...

I can picture the situation. A construction worker is annoyed because their coworker is off eating and not helping construct a wall. The construction worker vents their frustration by doodling on the unfinished wall. That doodle lasts 2000 years and helps archeologists determine when Mount Vesuvius eruption occurred.

Re: The New Treasures of Pompeii

#13
post #4

Pompeii is amazing, but Herculaneum[1] is just mind-blowing. They're maybe 30 minutes from each other, so it's possible to visit them on the same day if you start early. While Pompeii was covered in lava, Herculaneum was a bit further away from the volcano, so it got covered in ash - and therefore it's much better preserved. Herculaneum was kind of a beach resort for the Pompeii rich. It has luxurious villas, the sho…

Some travel sites recommends not visiting them both at the same day, since Pompeii is very large, and walking on cobble stone is exhausting. This piqued my interest, have you been to both? Do you have any general advice or travel tips? Did you go up to the volcano peak, if so, do you think that would be doable also for a small-ish child (~6-8 yo)? Thanks!

I've stayed in Sorento and done both on the same day. It's a lot of walking so you may end up carrying a 6 year old. It was also a full day trip. We left Sorento early and first went to Herculaneum, then Pompeii, and didn't get back until it was dark. Highly recommended.

Also keep in mind that the train (SorentoNaples) is rather (in)famous for pick pockets, though we didn't have any issues.

Re: The New Treasures of Pompeii

#14

Pompeii is amazing, but Herculaneum[1] is just mind-blowing. They're maybe 30 minutes from each other, so it's possible to visit them on the same day if you start early. While Pompeii was covered in lava, Herculaneum was a bit further away from the volcano, so it got covered in ash - and therefore it's much better preserved. Herculaneum was kind of a beach resort for the Pompeii rich. It has luxurious villas, the sho…

> I always get the feeling that we haven't invented much stuff since the Romans.

This chest is 3 thousand years old yet looks so similar to contemporary chests: http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/table.jpg (source: http://www.akhet.co.uk/furnit.htm)

Re: The New Treasures of Pompeii

#15

Pompeii is amazing, but Herculaneum[1] is just mind-blowing. They're maybe 30 minutes from each other, so it's possible to visit them on the same day if you start early. While Pompeii was covered in lava, Herculaneum was a bit further away from the volcano, so it got covered in ash - and therefore it's much better preserved. Herculaneum was kind of a beach resort for the Pompeii rich. It has luxurious villas, the sho…

I can second the recommendation of Herculaneum, it is an incredible site and I really enjoyed my visit. There was a collection of papyrus scrolls in the Villa dei Papiri there, which were carbonized by the ash. They were damaged and preserved at the same time by the eruption, so we still have many of them today but the intact scrolls fall apart if you try to open them by hand (similar to trying to unroll a piece of c…

"...constructing a custom micro-CT system capable of scanning the larger Herculaneum pieces is feasible using existing technology."

Unbelievable. Are we really that close?

If I might ask: what texts do you secretly hope might be found?

Re: The New Treasures of Pompeii

#16
post #4

Pompeii is amazing, but Herculaneum[1] is just mind-blowing. They're maybe 30 minutes from each other, so it's possible to visit them on the same day if you start early. While Pompeii was covered in lava, Herculaneum was a bit further away from the volcano, so it got covered in ash - and therefore it's much better preserved. Herculaneum was kind of a beach resort for the Pompeii rich. It has luxurious villas, the sho…

Some travel sites recommends not visiting them both at the same day, since Pompeii is very large, and walking on cobble stone is exhausting. This piqued my interest, have you been to both? Do you have any general advice or travel tips? Did you go up to the volcano peak, if so, do you think that would be doable also for a small-ish child (~6-8 yo)? Thanks!

Two months ago I took my 6 year old (who is raised in San Francisco therefore may be more accustomed to pedestrian life than, say, the US average) on the train from Naples to Pompeii at 10am, we spent about 4 hours at the site and caught the train back. She was tired at the end but liked it very much, and I was thinking I wanted to go back some time because there was a lot we didn't see.

I didn't expect the vastness and size of the site. Pretty great.

Re: The New Treasures of Pompeii

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can second the recommendation of Herculaneum, it is an incredible site and I really enjoyed my visit. There was a collection of papyrus scrolls in the Villa dei Papiri there, which were carbonized by the ash. They were damaged and preserved at the same time by the eruption, so we still have many of them today but the intact scrolls fall apart if you try to open them by hand (similar to trying to unroll a piece of c…

"...constructing a custom micro-CT system capable of scanning the larger Herculaneum pieces is feasible using existing technology." Unbelievable. Are we really that close? If I might ask: what texts do you secretly hope might be found?

If the morphology hypothesis (of the above paper) is more or less true, then it would indicate it is possible to detect the ink signal if the resolution of the CT scan is roughly at least as small as the thickness of the ink layer on the papyrus surface. We have measured this on some proxy manuscripts made in the lab to be on the order of 5 microns. So if you can scan an entire scroll at that resolution, in theory the data is all there.

The micro-CT machines currently available are either optimized for smaller object sizes or for lower resolutions. The challenge is to build a machine that can scan a "large" object such as an entire scroll at a high resolution. The above comment is saying that you could design and build such a machine using components currently available (expensive, but possible).

That's not the sole obstacle though, next you have to extract the information you want (visible text) from the resulting data. There are some more challenges here yet to be solved, notably segmenting out the individual layers from each other. This is particularly hard with the Herculaneum scrolls, as there are often hundreds of layers all smashed together, and they are wrinkled and warped. But we're working on this too!

Edit: as for the contents, it could be just about anything from the time period. Many of these scrolls have been opened manually over the last two hundred years since their discovery. This has largely destroyed them into thousands of fragments, but in many cases has revealed some text, so we know some of the contents of the library. Much of it is by Philodemus, who was an Epicurean philosopher but not particularly notable. It is believed that there could be more scrolls from other sections of the library still buried, as much of the town is not excavated. If it is shown that we can indeed read the contents noninvasively, it might be an incentive to dig up more of them and see what is there.

Re: The New Treasures of Pompeii

#18
post #4

Pompeii is amazing, but Herculaneum[1] is just mind-blowing. They're maybe 30 minutes from each other, so it's possible to visit them on the same day if you start early. While Pompeii was covered in lava, Herculaneum was a bit further away from the volcano, so it got covered in ash - and therefore it's much better preserved. Herculaneum was kind of a beach resort for the Pompeii rich. It has luxurious villas, the sho…

Some travel sites recommends not visiting them both at the same day, since Pompeii is very large, and walking on cobble stone is exhausting. This piqued my interest, have you been to both? Do you have any general advice or travel tips? Did you go up to the volcano peak, if so, do you think that would be doable also for a small-ish child (~6-8 yo)? Thanks!

I was there in January. I regret not making the time to get to Herculaneum, as it sounds spectacular. Covering all the open parts of Pompeii in anything less than a full day would be infeasible, so I'm happy we allocated the whole day there. And yes, it's an exhausting site - fairly flat with gentle slopes, but stones & scale conspire. (I walked 16.5km that day.) I'd also suggest unless you're likely to return, rushing through such places means you miss much of the impact.

Re: The New Treasures of Pompeii

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...constructing a custom micro-CT system capable of scanning the larger Herculaneum pieces is feasible using existing technology." Unbelievable. Are we really that close? If I might ask: what texts do you secretly hope might be found?

If the morphology hypothesis (of the above paper) is more or less true, then it would indicate it is possible to detect the ink signal if the resolution of the CT scan is roughly at least as small as the thickness of the ink layer on the papyrus surface. We have measured this on some proxy manuscripts made in the lab to be on the order of 5 microns. So if you can scan an entire scroll at that resolution, in theory th…

Thanks for the details.

I'd like to understand the potential for recovering lost works of any kind. What sort of organizations exist for this?

Burned scrolls, is one source.

In India, there are thousands of manuscripts rotting in temple treasuries.

Palimsets have yet to be discovered in archives.

And even archives themselves may contain lost treasures through misclassification.

Are there other potential sources for finding lost manuscripts?

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