Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#61

Post by yonaguska » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #19

stevenalowe wrote: post #2

How about we do our jobs instead? Yes please!

This is exactly right. At my small startup we may have heated discussions about monads, or tabs vs spaces, but you'll never hear any talk about any elected official or laws or current events. It's not that we don't care. It's just that it's not the reason we spend 8+ hours/day together.

The difference is that Google's product is almost inherently political, especially when it comes to how they tailor search results and rank news results. I think it is productive that people who work on products that have political ramifications should be allowed to talk about politics because what they do has political ramifications.

I would hate for dissenting voices within google to be silenced and everyone to simply follow orders from the top regarding how they make search ranking decisions. Especially considering the recent whistle-blowers from within google alleging political bias in google search results. Surprisingly, none of which seemed to make any waves here on HN.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#62

Post by root_axis » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #30

BurningFrog wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they have work to do. That's why they're there.

Their job is to create a forum for others to debate, and to try and maintain neutrality. Their own politics aren't necessarily relevant. Everyone wants to be able to have their political opinions, try and convince others, and not get fired. It's kind of a pick-2 situation. Feel free to bring politics in with ya so long as you embrace the philosophy that you can say anything you want on your last day.

> Their job is to create a forum for others to debate, and to try and maintain neutrality

What? Says who?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#63

Post by zarkov99 » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #17

Why shouldn’t employees of the company with the goal of organizing all the worlds information debate politics? Everything is political. Especially information.

Because political discussions are incredibly polarizing, specially these days, and once they are allowed they pulverize the company into factions that cannot work together until the more strident or powerful of these factions takes over and pushes everybody else out or into silence. And when this happens, you have an homogeneous political body as the gatekeeper to the worlds information. What could go wrong?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#64

Post by SkyBelow » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

>I think they just overestimated the ability of their employees to respect each other when they hold differing world views.

I think this can be quite difficult to do just because of the political views involved. For example, how should a gay man respect a colleague who honestly thinks that homosexuality should be punished with death. In such a case, I would say that even asking the first individual to tolerate, much less respect, the second is itself a form of disrespect.

Now, that is a pretty extreme view for today's society but good for making an example with. It is also not too far off from many views that I have personally seen, especially when you begin to imagine the legal changes involved to implement those views.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#65

Post by wtdata » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

I am under the impression it was never a debate to start with. A debate implies that both sides are allowed to speak their arguments, yet, Google was actively shutting down and firing people that defended one of the sides.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#66

Post by ilikehurdles » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

kranner wrote: post #6

stevenalowe wrote: post #2

How about we do our jobs instead? Yes please!

How about judging us on our performance at our jobs then, and not treating us as children?

Google probably has a higher concentration of "children" (loose sense of the word) than your average tech employer, as it aggressively poaches junior engineers, focusing heavily on academic technical proficiency over other professional aspects, and then many don't stick around long term.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#67

Post by mieseratte » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #28

Monkey has shit the bed already though hasn't it. I never had the need to discuss politics at work. Just don't do it, why open that can of worms. Absolutely no need to do so. One time a coworker asked me and I said "I don't discuss politics at work". Be professional, people.

Once had a coworker out of left-field start telling me how one should be free to assault someone based on the arbitrary assessment of their speech being "harmful." This coworker wrongly assumed I would agree with them, and was rather taken aback when I shutdown the conversation as opposed to expressing my agreement.

Now you've gone and run the risk of creating a hostile working environment. Why people feel this is a sane mode of being is beyond me.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#68

Post by papito » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

It's a basic "work for hire" contract between two parties. No other employer will tolerate this. If you don't like it - quit and write a blog post.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#69

Post by arcticbull » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #62

arcticbull wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their job is to create a forum for others to debate, and to try and maintain neutrality. Their own politics aren't necessarily relevant. Everyone wants to be able to have their political opinions, try and convince others, and not get fired. It's kind of a pick-2 situation. Feel free to bring politics in with ya so long as you embrace the philosophy that you can say anything you want on your last day.

> Their job is to create a forum for others to debate, and to try and maintain neutrality What? Says who?

Others as in not their employees. Google indexes all the worlds information, who says their goal is to impose their opinion on it? Isn't neutrality in indexing the assumption?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#70

Post by Koshkin » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

19ylram49 wrote: post #48

taurath wrote: post #17

Why shouldn’t employees of the company with the goal of organizing all the worlds information debate politics? Everything is political. Especially information.

Exactly. I find it quite bizarre when some folks suggest divorcing from politics as if the possibility exists. Everything is political. Even this very conversation is political.

> Everything is political.

Math is not political.