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AdoptOpenJDK: Open-source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries

adoptopenjdk.net

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Re: AdoptOpenJDK: Open-source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries

#81

Post by gol706 »

pron wrote: post #69
gol706 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my hell trying to navigate for the past year. As a general rule, anyone who can't commit to updating and testing their software to run on the latest JDK ever 6 months should avoid the Oracle OpenJDK binaries like the plague since support for even LTS versions of Java is dropped 6 months after initial release.

Whether you use LTS versions or not, you must update your JDK every 3 months or so to stay secure, and must perform full regression tests. That we've recently changed the version naming scheme and started giving the 6-monthly updates new integer numbers does not make them major releases. I understand that people are confused because LTS and feature releases perhaps mean something different for Java than for other pro…

That's all well and good for software developed in house by a full time development team that gets deployed to a single known environment, but that's only one way that the JDK gets used. If you provide software to customers to deploy in their own environments without direct control over updates, or if you have maintenance mode line of business software that you just want to keep patched this becomes a much bigger burden. Oracle also hasn't really been giving the time for these changes to be adopted either when the support for even LTS JDK builds is dropped at the same time the next stable major version is released. I realize that Oracle's answer is "and that's when you should pay us for support", but for anyone who wants to continue to use Java (or the JDK) in the "free" way its been historically, it's so much safer form a business perspective to use a JDK provider that has better support commitments to their free versions. Other than the fact that it's the default served by *.jdk.net that people are used to, I don't see why you would choose the Oracle OpenJDK over another provider.

Re: AdoptOpenJDK: Open-source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries

#82

Post by pron »

gol706 wrote: post #81
pron wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether you use LTS versions or not, you must update your JDK every 3 months or so to stay secure, and must perform full regression tests. That we've recently changed the version naming scheme and started giving the 6-monthly updates new integer numbers does not make them major releases. I understand that people are confused because LTS and feature releases perhaps mean something different for Java than for other pro…

That's all well and good for software developed in house by a full time development team that gets deployed to a single known environment, but that's only one way that the JDK gets used. If you provide software to customers to deploy in their own environments without direct control over updates, or if you have maintenance mode line of business software that you just want to keep patched this becomes a much bigger bur…

Free support for JDK 8 ended after an average of 5 years and a notice of one year. Moreover, early access and then public availability JDK 9 builds were avaialble for a year and a half before end of public support. This is at least as much time as any previous version. Add to that the fact that the current free perpetual support is cheaper and easier than ever (although it does require a bit of getting used to), and the claim that people did not have enough time to adjust sounds tenuous.

In addition, Oracle has completely open-sourced the JDK, for the first time ever, and as we had done several times before, we transferred ownership of old JDK versions to Red Hat. Feel free to use whatever OpenJDK distribution you find suitable to your needs, but keep in mind that 90% of the work on OpenJDK is done by Oracle.

Finally, it is incorrect to say that support is dropped the next time the major version is shipped as Java 9 was the last major release ever. "Dropping support" for the semi-annual release as soon as the next one is released has been the practice for at least the past 7 years (e.g. there were no further updates to 8 once 8u20 was released). What has changed is that the semi-annual releases get an integer number. This certainly confuses people who don't realize that what would have been called 9u20 was renamed 10 and so on, and that cheaper upgrades are now easier and cheaper than ever before. So I agree communication could have been better (we're working on that), but I disagree with your characterization.

To summarize, free perpetual support is easier than ever, there was plenty of time for people to adjust, and open sourcing of the JDK has opened up the field for other distributions for different support options. All in all, things are cheaper, freer, and you have more options than ever. Yes, it seems that people have not yet internalized the meaning of the new feature releases (they are not major releases, but much closer to the old "limited update" releases), as well as the meaning of LTS (which is only recommended if you have a good reason not to use the current JDK).

Re: AdoptOpenJDK: Open-source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries

#83

Post by mrbonner »

needusername wrote: post #60
mrbonner wrote: post #34

One of the company with large contribution to the AdoptOpenJDK is jClarity. jClarity got purchased by Microsoft a few days ago. Are we seeing MS more involvement for JDK development from now on? They are pushing it big for .NET platform but the JVM consumption is a huge market opportunity. With MS strategy of going all in in cloud computing, supporting the JVM is a no-brainer to me.

Honest question, do any of the current jClarity employees actually do upstream OpenJDK development? I know they build tools around Java but I'm not aware that any of the current employees take part in upstream OpenJDK development eg. at least have a JBS account. Maybe I'm just misinformed.

From what I know, jClarity is only contributing financial support to the AdoptOpenJDK platform: build farm, hosting binaries. I don’t think they do backport of securities or bug fixes for expired releases like Redhat or Amazon does.

Re: AdoptOpenJDK: Open-source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries

#84

Post by microcolonel »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #28
latchkey wrote: post #19

You don't need extra projects to manage this stuff anymore. There is a great answer here... https://stackoverflow.com/questions/52524112/how-do-i-instal... brew install java (12) brew install java11 And you can simplify things... In your .bashrc: export JDK_HOME=`/usr/libexec/java_home -v 12` # v9+ change to the version you installed export JAVA_PATH=$JDK_HOME export JAVA_HOME=$JDK_HOME export PATH="." export PATH="$…

Homebrew is only useful for macOS users though sadly.

On Arch Linux, OpenJDKs from 8 through 12 are packaged in the main repositories, and there's a convenient shell utility for switching them (with symlinks, rather than environment variables, so that you can change the default in shells that have already started).

Re: AdoptOpenJDK: Open-source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries

#85

Post by karianna »

mrbonner wrote: post #83
needusername wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, do any of the current jClarity employees actually do upstream OpenJDK development? I know they build tools around Java but I'm not aware that any of the current employees take part in upstream OpenJDK development eg. at least have a JBS account. Maybe I'm just misinformed.

From what I know, jClarity is only contributing financial support to the AdoptOpenJDK platform: build farm, hosting binaries. I don’t think they do backport of securities or bug fixes for expired releases like Redhat or Amazon does.

We had started to submit actual patches and work yes, that will now increase at MSFT. (ex jClaritt CEO here)

Re: AdoptOpenJDK: Open-source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries

#88

Post by karianna »

needusername wrote: post #58
meddlepal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically? Yes, Correto is it's own separate distribution that Amazon manages porting upstream changes into. Same as how Azul's Zulu is a "competitor" as well. Practically speaking, it shouldn't matter as they all pass the Java TCK.

1. AdoptOpenJDK does not run the TCK. 2. Corretto and Zulu each have their own patch set. Corretto backports a couple of G1 fixes and Zulu backports Flight Recorder and TLS 1.3.

Although no TCK we do run > 100,000 open tests, including many popular open-source libraries, frameworks and languages. We're very comfortable standing behind the quality of these binaries :-).

Re: AdoptOpenJDK: Open-source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries

#90

Post by karianna »

needusername wrote: post #72
bad_user wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TCK is not open, it isn't governed by a standards body, the TCL is completely in Oracle's control. If Java is to evolve as an open platform, it needs to break free from the TCK that disallowed Apache Harmony to exist. We don't need it and an independent TCK could be developed.

Yet any other OpenJDK distribution from Alibaba, Amazon, Azul, BellSoft, RedHat, SAP (I probably forgot some) all run the TCK. All except AdoptOpenJDK. And whenever you bring that up the only response is ranting about the TCK.

No ranting from us :-). We've not been granted access to the TCK and we continue to hold an open dialogue with Oracle on this. We hope to get this resolved down the line!
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