Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 231 posts

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#141

Post by zelon88 »

creaghpatr wrote: post #86
wpietri wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I think it's reasonable (although perhaps naive) for people to have a sunny view of law enforcement. Especially when, like me, they're white men from middle-class backgrounds; I've never had a bad experience with law enforcement, despite having done some stupendously dumb-ass things. But even though I'm predisposed to view cops favorably, the stuff with ICE is shocking to me. America has a big chunk of histo…

Or, if Mexican heroin killed multiple people you know, you have a not-sunny view of illegal immigrants and unsecured borders. Just because you attribute your own ignorance to the color of your skin, doesn't mean others do.

I'm sorry to hear you may have experienced this.

But is it really fair to call it "Mexican" heroin? Is that a bonafide statement or an assumption? Lethal drugs don't explicitly come from outside the US, and in the presence of stronger border security the supply-demand curve would just re-balance itself with an all domestic supply.

Heroin has always been illegal. Illegally crossing the border has always been illegal. I view the "Mexican" claim as a scapegoat. One could easily make the argument that spending $5b on privatized drug rehab programs (instead of privatized-incarceration) would have the same or greater positive effects on the drug epidemic than a $5b wall. Or $5b in aide to regular police departments along the border (not ICE). Or $5b in aide to Mexican towns right over the border.

There are a million ways to skin a cat. If reducing domestic drug deaths is the goal, demonizing immigration is not the answer. Education and treatment are the answer. Mexicans are just a convenient target.

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#142

Post by word-reader »

CydeWeys wrote: post #12
mulmen wrote: post #2

Maybe I misunderstand Palantir's mission but working with LEOs like ICE seems to be their core business. All credit to these employees for standing up for what they believe in but what exactly did they think they were signing up for? I have a new coworker who wears his Palantir t-shirt and it makes me uncomfortable to even see the name in my office.

I interviewed with Palantir maybe seven years ago (didn't get the job) and definitely wasn't aware at the time that they were doing this kind of work, if they even were back then. And had I known they were doing CBP stuff, I may have been OK with it under Obama even. It wasn't until Trump got elected and immigration policy became explicitly racist and enforcement child-separationy and concentration-campy that I reall…

How has immigration policy in the US become "explicitly racist"? Immigration law has essentially remained unchanged. DACA was repealed, but DACA was an executive action not partial to country of origin. H-1B denials have increased, but based on pre-existing requirements and quotas. Administrative changes in asylum rules and public charge requirements affect every immigrant regardless of country of origin or race.

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#143

Post by ppseafield »

nailer wrote: post #64
analogist wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think there is no difference in guilt between being a war criminal’s arm dealer and being a war criminal’s grocer?

I might be really uneducated here - I'm not American. All I know about ICE is that they're immigration and customs enforcement - they're basically the US's border force. The quality of the conditions they keep migrants in is poor, and has been for years. OK. Why is that worthy of a boycott? Your democratically elected governments create the laws, and determine the funding for things like beds and toys etc. Boycotts i…

Indeed, Customs and Border Patrol are the ones on the border. ICE are the folks that find and deport people already inside the US.

Under the last administration ICE was only targeting folks who had committed serious crimes, but now they're targeting all undocumented folk. A lot of our economy actually depends on these people, as they tend to be the ones picking vegetables and working in factory farms, preparing livestock for sale - nasty jobs most people don't want. Trump's golf courses and hotels have also knowingly employed undocumented folk, but they don't do much to the people employing undocumented folks (which is actually illegal - being undocumented is not).

Oh, and we're a country of immigrants. (Except the native folk.)

See https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/us/politics/fact-check-ic... for a bit more detail.

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#144

Post by eionh »

gopalv wrote: post #103
tempsy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't understand this. Seems like if you were willing to work for Palantir before this made news you'd have understood that surveillance tech to police depts, corporations, etc. is exactly what the company sells/enables. I did have a recruiter reach out a long time ago and remember they did actually pitch the social good use case of helping law enforcement find and arrest criminals involved in child prostituti…

> they did actually pitch the social good use case of helping law enforcement find and arrest criminals involved in child prostitution rings. That's sort of the crux of it - ICE wasn't supposed to be bad guys. In fact, ICE could be heroes - they really could be, when they were breaking up trafficking and rescuing people out of criminal control. Instead, they are tasked with tearing children away from parents and maki…

>Instead, they are tasked with tearing children away from parents and making orphans by deporting parents away.

:'( :'( Fuck having borders and laws and shit

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#145

Post by immaway »

wpietri wrote: post #37
sp332 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICE thing has gotten dramatically worse recently. Accepting a certain level of abuse of power in other LE agencies doesn't necessarily mean they're OK with, say, actively pushing back against a DoJ settlement so they can hold children in detention indefinitely, etc.

Exactly. I think it's reasonable (although perhaps naive) for people to have a sunny view of law enforcement. Especially when, like me, they're white men from middle-class backgrounds; I've never had a bad experience with law enforcement, despite having done some stupendously dumb-ass things. But even though I'm predisposed to view cops favorably, the stuff with ICE is shocking to me. America has a big chunk of histo…

Enforcing the rules that people have to obey to get and stay in the country. That isn't ethnic cleansing.

Plenty of people who are not white people come to the country legally every year.

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#146

Post by immaway »

zelon88 wrote: post #141
creaghpatr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, if Mexican heroin killed multiple people you know, you have a not-sunny view of illegal immigrants and unsecured borders. Just because you attribute your own ignorance to the color of your skin, doesn't mean others do.

I'm sorry to hear you may have experienced this. But is it really fair to call it "Mexican" heroin? Is that a bonafide statement or an assumption? Lethal drugs don't explicitly come from outside the US, and in the presence of stronger border security the supply-demand curve would just re-balance itself with an all domestic supply. Heroin has always been illegal. Illegally crossing the border has always been illegal.…

Demonizing immigration?

How about simply enforcing the law against coming or staying here illegally while others wait in line?

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#147

Post by nabnob »

CydeWeys wrote: post #133
tastygreenapple wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but none of these features are new, child seperation and children dying in ICE facilities happened under the Obama administration and it wasn't a big deal then. What changed?

Source? Every news article I've seen shows that the problem is far worse under Trump.

It actually was higher under Obama - https://www.axios.com/immigration-ice-deportation-trump-obam...

>By the numbers: Under the Obama administration, total ICE deportations were above 385,000 each year in fiscal years 2009-2011, and hit a high of 409,849 in fiscal 2012. The numbers dropped to below 250,000 in fiscal years 2015 and 2016.

>Under Trump, ICE deportations fell to 226,119 in fiscal 2017, then ticked up to over 250,000 in fiscal 2018 and hit a Trump administration high of 282,242 this fiscal year (as of June).

Edit: I'm not saying I support Trump or ICE, my point is that Obama was hardly a leftist.

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#148

Post by immaway »

CydeWeys wrote: post #129
creaghpatr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, if Mexican heroin killed multiple people you know, you have a not-sunny view of illegal immigrants and unsecured borders. Just because you attribute your own ignorance to the color of your skin, doesn't mean others do.

What does the one have to do with the other??? Undocumented immigrants and asylum seekers are fleeing terrible conditions in their home countries and trying to make a better living for their family here. They're not the same at all as the criminal gangs that smuggle in drugs via a large variety of methods.

No border advocates can't pass a law ending borders so they try to demonize the people enforcing our rules.

Advocate for unlimited visas for anyone who can code. Need to drive down wages for developers.

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#149

Post by immaway »

openasocket wrote: post #53
cybersnowflake wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> If you're a citizen and you commit certain crimes you are separated from your children The overwhelming majority of these cases are people coming to the border and requesting asylum. They passed a credible fear interview administered by CBP, and have been granted entry into the US pending their hearing. They have not committed a crime.

An interview that is easily gamed. If people self deported after getting all their hearing and being determined not to qualify for asylum there would not be as much of a problem.

Most of the people claiming asylum do not qualify for asylum, but once they are in the country it is hard and costly to find them.

Re: The war inside Palantir: Data-mining firm ties to ICE under attack by employees

#150

Post by alkibiades »

mulmen wrote: post #2

Maybe I misunderstand Palantir's mission but working with LEOs like ICE seems to be their core business. All credit to these employees for standing up for what they believe in but what exactly did they think they were signing up for? I have a new coworker who wears his Palantir t-shirt and it makes me uncomfortable to even see the name in my office.

seeing a t shirt makes you uncomfortable?
Post reply on HN