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Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

groups.csail.mit.edu

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Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have bones to pick out of OP, your post assumes your experience is the norm and not far away from the median.

For real. Being a software developer is probably the easiest and safest career you can have without being born into wealth. edit: I should also mention having options is not really a blessing when they're all bad.

[deleted]

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#342
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a look a low wage/low skill jobs. There is no such thing as security, employees are subject to their employer's benevolence. They even have to accept circumstances that might violate laws. They can't fight it because they need the job, even if they hate it. I'm too busy to do the research for you, but Amazon warehouse workers are the first examples that come to my mind.

It’s the opposite. Low wage workers leave much more often than get fired. Consider Uber where drivers earn a very low net wage. Only 4% remain after a year. Maybe some are fired but I suspect he overwhelming majority just move on. Amazon has the highest turnover of any Fortune 500 company in 2013. That’s because their workers quit. They have options even at a low wage. That’s why they recently raised wages. https://w…

If it's like when I worked menial jobs then the bosses just do something to make you quit like scheduling you for only 1 hour a week, assign you to only do the shit work that was previously spread out, etc. I think that muddies the water a bit in terms of those stats

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#343
post #114

The 40h a day week and modern-day work contracts come as a direct evolution of medieval servitude, with little modification. This explains the system of values that revolve around it, such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. The servant was not expected to leave it…

> such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. Your entire post is overgeneralization and dramatizing to prove some poorly thought out hypothesis but this here is the most obvious example. When there is enough choice people change jobs all the time - the demand in my l…

Software development is far from the norm. People working menial jobs don't have the luxury of making demands or changing jobs on a whim.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#344
post #114

The 40h a day week and modern-day work contracts come as a direct evolution of medieval servitude, with little modification. This explains the system of values that revolve around it, such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. The servant was not expected to leave it…

> such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. Your entire post is overgeneralization and dramatizing to prove some poorly thought out hypothesis but this here is the most obvious example. When there is enough choice people change jobs all the time - the demand in my l…

> Your entire post is overgeneralization

…proceeds to extrapolate from "my local dev market" to economy with thousands of sectors and tens of millions of workers without a trace of irony or self-awareness. Um, ok.

As others have pointed out, being in software engineering at this particular point in time is probably not super representative.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#345
post #114

The 40h a day week and modern-day work contracts come as a direct evolution of medieval servitude, with little modification. This explains the system of values that revolve around it, such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. The servant was not expected to leave it…

You don't even imagine how much employers do to favor employees. This jaded view from corporate america, by corporate employees, ignores that the majority of employment comes from small businesses that eat up losses all the time to not lose valuable employees.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#346
post #114

The 40h a day week and modern-day work contracts come as a direct evolution of medieval servitude, with little modification. This explains the system of values that revolve around it, such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. The servant was not expected to leave it…

> such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. Your entire post is overgeneralization and dramatizing to prove some poorly thought out hypothesis but this here is the most obvious example. When there is enough choice people change jobs all the time - the demand in my l…

In the past, there definitely was such norm. The "job hopping" was seen as negative.

Even today, I software development and especially sillicon valley is a bit of outlier - people in our industry change more often then in other industries.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple rules that work for me: a) don't take my work laptop home, no corp provided phone (if they insist I'd keep the phone at my work desk, where it belongs). b) work 40 hours on average per week. Just go home already! Helps if you're a late sleeper (like me), you can simply arrive later at work to compensate for the hours you've recently donated to your employer. This works very well for me, although I'm based in E…

I would argue not only that early rising is totally unnatural but also that lying in bed half awake - sleep researchers call this state "hypnagogic" - is positively beneficial to health and happiness. A good morning doze of half an hour or more can, for example, help you to prepare mentally for the problems and tasks ahead. --The Virtue Of Idleness By Tom Hodgkinson

I wish I could wake up naturally, when I feel rested, but my 2 y.o. Won’t let me. Also, my wife is nuts and thinks it’s lazy to sleep past 7. I want to wake up at 9... but have to be up around 5:30-6 every day. Thing is, I’m self-employed and have nowhere to be, no one to answer to. What went wrong...

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#348
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not taking your laptop home is poor information security practice. We had a break-in where dozens of laptops were stolen. We had to do key rolling, password resets, etc for the whole organization. Many people couldn't even work until new computers were shipped in. Of course me and the people who took our laptops home were fine.

Sounds like the organization you work for should have spent more in security.

The thieves climbed up to the second floor and smashed a window. I'm not sure what kind of security could have prevented this.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#349
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. Your entire post is overgeneralization and dramatizing to prove some poorly thought out hypothesis but this here is the most obvious example. When there is enough choice people change jobs all the time - the demand in my l…

> Your entire post is overgeneralization …proceeds to extrapolate from "my local dev market" to economy with thousands of sectors and tens of millions of workers without a trace of irony or self-awareness. Um, ok. As others have pointed out, being in software engineering at this particular point in time is probably not super representative.

No I just gave one counterexample where his theory clearly breaks down and gave a more general explanation based on supply and demand.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#350
post #114

The 40h a day week and modern-day work contracts come as a direct evolution of medieval servitude, with little modification. This explains the system of values that revolve around it, such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. The servant was not expected to leave it…

> such as for example the notion that it's somewhat something to be ashamed of for an employee to leave its employer, while it's perfectly OK for the employer to terminate the employee at any time. Your entire post is overgeneralization and dramatizing to prove some poorly thought out hypothesis but this here is the most obvious example. When there is enough choice people change jobs all the time - the demand in my l…

What's your supply and demand explanation for the following norms?

- It's considered professional for employees give their employers two weeks notice before leaving. It's considered completely reasonable for employers to terminate employees and not even pay them for the rest of the day.

- It's considered unprofessional to talk about what you're getting paid.

- It's considered normal for potential employers to do background checks, call references, and even run credit checks on potential employees. Ask a potential employer for references or any information on their financials, and that's weird. The latter is particularly strange, because the employer is paying the employee, so the employee has a much larger interest in making sure the employer can pay them.

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