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Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

jeff-vogel.blogspot.com

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Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#91

Post by gmueckl »

gtirloni wrote: post #18
Causality1 wrote: post #2

>made by a team of freelancers, to our specifications So...did these freelancers not communicate with each other at all? When I saw the first screenshot on the page, of the newest game, I thought it was composed entirely of assets purchased from an asset store and built in RPG Maker and I expected the body of the article to be centered on why it's ok to buy assets when what you're focusing on is gameplay. I feel like…

He doesn't have a cadre of artists. They might not be working concurrently in the same game. He specifically says multiple times that they come and go, life happens. I guess there's an argument to be made that he could focus on better and better specifications for those artists so, over time, the style stays consistent. But I dont know anything about that. Seems doable?

You can absolutely write specifications for art. And I would consider a pretty technical checklist for quality control that is agreed on in advance (lighting from predetermined direction, adjerence to color palette for corresponding scenery, shadows consistent, required silhouettes recognizable etc.).

I remember an old style guide written by MS for Windows XP that outlined in great detail how icons in the default theme style meed achieve their look. It gave technical details like the exact location of the vanishing point for perspectively drawn icons. So coming up with an art style specification should be doable once the style has been developed.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#92

Post by meheleventyone »

cotelletta wrote: post #81
alttab wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it seems like he focused more on making sure that his artists were replaceable, even at the price of a hodge-podge style. The criticism is legitimate - it doesn't seem like Jeff has invested in his own ability to direct art.

Yeah and because art has vastly different constraints from coding, wanting to swap out artists is just counterproductive. Then again, the older I get, the more I think the same should apply to developers. You should never lock knowledge inside one person's head, but the idea that you can take over a project without its original creators doing a years long hand off is naive, and leads to all the expected pathologies.…

> Yeah and because art has vastly different constraints from coding, wanting to swap out artists is just counterproductive.

It's actually really common. Most games take years to make and in my experience at least it's very unusual to ship with the same team that started. Art is also the side of things that most readily gets outsourced, either through bought and modified assets or through freelancers and outsourcing companies. Maintaining consistency is something that has to be managed.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#93

Post by Crinus »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #84

> People who grew up with Nintendo and Sega really like pixel art. As one of those people, I really don't like pixel art at all. Today's pixel art looks nothing like games did back in the day. The simple reason is that those Nintendo and Sega games weren't played on 27" 4k LCD monitors or 65" OLED TV's but on on the barely 14" CRT in my bedroom. We didn't have huge pixely sprites, they were small and blurry. It had a…

Eh, i played NES games on my grandparents' ~24" TV, those pixels were clearly visible (though not so visible on my own monochrome TV). Also while "pixel art" is often associated with NES/SEGA by the people who grew up with those systems, it is was also very common in home computers where image clarity was much better than on TV - especially with most games being 320x200 that appeared double scanned on pretty much every EGA and VGA monitor. Even the shitty monochrome 14" VGA monitor that my 386 had had enough clarity to distinguish individual pixels at 640x480

I have several CRTs and pixel art looks pretty much the same in them as it does in modern flat panel displays (blurry pixels is the result of hardware issues and badly configured focus which in many cases it can be fixed). The biggest difference is scaling of low resolution video modes though the integer scaling that is being introduced recently in new drivers should address that (at least as best as possible on a fixed resolution display).

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#94

Post by adito »

cousin_it wrote: post #35

Jeff, the art problems of your games have nothing to do with low-res. Baba is You (or Downwell) are just as low-res, but manage to look good because they use fewer colors and choose them well. I recommend learning that skill, it will make your games look way better and it honestly doesn't take that much time.

Honest question, where does one learn that skill? If it doesn't take that much time, how long it usually takes? I have no clue about art, design, and stuff. Where does I even start?

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#95

Post by dkersten »

0xfaded wrote: post #3

The graphics immediately reminded me of Tibia ( https://www.tibia.com/news ), the MMO running since 1997. My friends were into it at one point, and I cut my programming teeth writing bots for the game (sorry CIPsoft). Kind of sad to see the playership has been in decline for the last 10 years though :(.

The art in that game looks consistent, lighting looks decent and the colours work well together. Sadly all of these properties lack from the OPs screenshots.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#96

Post by mrob »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #84

> People who grew up with Nintendo and Sega really like pixel art. As one of those people, I really don't like pixel art at all. Today's pixel art looks nothing like games did back in the day. The simple reason is that those Nintendo and Sega games weren't played on 27" 4k LCD monitors or 65" OLED TV's but on on the barely 14" CRT in my bedroom. We didn't have huge pixely sprites, they were small and blurry. It had a…

I grew up playing DOS games on a VGA CRT, most of which were line-doubled 320x200 resolution. The pixels were much sharper than you'd see on a cheap SD TV, and not far from the sharp edges of nearest-neighbor upscaling, which is my preferred style. I also point out that some official artwork for old console games showed sharp pixels (e.g. the Super Mario Bros. cover art). Calling it "false nostalgia" is making assumptions about the hardware of the time and the artist's intentions that aren't universally true.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#98

Post by masklinn »

Causality1 wrote: post #2

>made by a team of freelancers, to our specifications So...did these freelancers not communicate with each other at all? When I saw the first screenshot on the page, of the newest game, I thought it was composed entirely of assets purchased from an asset store and built in RPG Maker and I expected the body of the article to be centered on why it's ok to buy assets when what you're focusing on is gameplay. I feel like…

Nethergate looks absolutely awful, and I'm not fond of Avernum's art either.

Exile: Escape From the Pit looks OK, it uses bold colors and a pretty consistent palette, it could be improved (the texturing attempts on the wooden elements) is bleh and the perspective is a bit odd) but the world area at least is fine.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#99

Post by env123 »

cousin_it wrote: post #35

Jeff, the art problems of your games have nothing to do with low-res. Baba is You (or Downwell) are just as low-res, but manage to look good because they use fewer colors and choose them well. I recommend learning that skill, it will make your games look way better and it honestly doesn't take that much time.

So basically Jeff just need to take some art lessons

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#100

Post by sfg »

navigatesol wrote: post #73
alttab wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeff has had 25 years to get good at it. Based on the reasoning in his article, it seems like he didn't try.

> it seems like he didn't try. He got good at other things he cared more about it. Maybe he should hang out on HackerNews more, so he can be an expert on everything.

I'm so glad somebody sane has shown up.

The guy is doing well, relative to his own aims and objectives, and has found a way to work within his limitations to hit a sweet spot that allows him to support his family in a happy life and provide games enjoyed by a loyal fanbase.

What do we discover from HN? He's a lazy bugger that hasn't put any real effort in to respond to his customer's complaints and has failed to learn key lessons regarding his own business (that he has successfully run for twenty-five years).

Sometimes this place is completely ridiculous.

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