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15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

nytimes.com

721–730 of 932 posts

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#721
Use a condorcet method [0] to elect a US president that represents common ground.

Needs of specific groups of people can be taken into account as transparent supplementary conditions. Sparsely populated areas constitute one potential parameter. Maybe the opinions of poor and ill people can also be taken into account for while respecting their privacy.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_method

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#722

1) the presidency has grown too powerful and imperial with a bureaucracy so massive the Qing emperor would be jealous. 2) 15 States can do what they want, but unless they meet the provisions in Article 5, the college is here to stay. Thank goodness the Framers had the foresight to include the process for amending the Constitution in the document.

The states have the absolute right to assign their electors as they see fit. The framers intended for them to be locally elected or proportional, like Maine and Nebraska today.

Oh I know. There is no Federal notion of a popular vote for the presidency. It's entirely up to each state how they wish to nominate their Electors.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not going to be able to buy off 30,000 reps if you are a lobyist. More reps and less staff are the way to win back democracy.

It is probably cheaper to buy off a large number of low-power reps than a smaller number of high power ones

It might be cheaper, but it is going to be hard to organise.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#724
For 32+ years, the fact is that the Democratic candidate has won the popular vote 7 times in the last 8 elections.

I am not saying whether this is good or bad.

But, I think the two party system would crumble very quickly if the Electoral College were removed, and something else would come into place instead.

Disclaimer: I do not vote despite being an American citizen. I am also an anarchist.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#725

For 32+ years, the fact is that the Democratic candidate has won the popular vote 7 times in the last 8 elections. I am not saying whether this is good or bad. But, I think the two party system would crumble very quickly if the Electoral College were removed, and something else would come into place instead. Disclaimer: I do not vote despite being an American citizen. I am also an anarchist.

If this means viable 3rd parties, am all for it.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, at that extreme, it's big, and I probably could state my claim more precisely. Here's my claim: if you drew a curve of electoral votes per person by percentile, there would be a very small area that was significantly elevated, and the remaining portion would be moderately flat. Because Wyoming's population is so small, the absolute impact isn't that big. Go up just a few spots to Hawaii and it's more like a 2:1…

To quantify that "very close", in 2016, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million votes, which is 1.5% of the voting population. I would not call that very close. It isn't a difference of some 1000 votes. It's an election of a minority leader.

Nite that Hew York City alone accounted for more than half of that margin.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swing states shift, though. California was basically solid red from the 1950s through the 1980s. Until 2016, few people would have called Wisconsin or Michigan "swing states" judging from their voting in the past few elections. People move, demographics change.

> California was basically solid red from the 1950s through the 1980s Suddenly swung in 1992, and has been seen as solid blue since—not really an example of swing states switching as a state rapidly moving from Republican lock to Democratic lock.

California was never "solidly red". Aside from President, it's been mostly blue, as a simple look at the makeup of the state legislature shows (it's been mostly Democrat controlled for over two generations).

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#728

For 32+ years, the fact is that the Democratic candidate has won the popular vote 7 times in the last 8 elections. I am not saying whether this is good or bad. But, I think the two party system would crumble very quickly if the Electoral College were removed, and something else would come into place instead. Disclaimer: I do not vote despite being an American citizen. I am also an anarchist.

If this means viable 3rd parties, am all for it.

Personally I think it does, and I also think it means that there would be a spectrum shift among the candidates to more "left of center" positions.

For example I think you would still have a broad selection of candidates who differ greatly on economic ideas. But, I think that social ideas that currently are still being debated (abortion, church and state, drugs) would be resolved. I am willing to estimate that maybe 70% of Americans agree on these social issues, compared to economic issues being more 50/50.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If rural issues aren't handled then you'll have even more urbanization and even more expensive housing. The odds are already attacked against rural life. > Why are the concerns of the people living in LAC less important than the concerns of the people in Nevada or Arkansas? So instead you want even more people from Nevada and Arkansas to move to LAC, because that's where politicians will pay attention?

That doesn't seem any more likely to me than Californians moving to Wyoming to make their vote count today.

The difference is that while the vote of each Californian might have less impact on the outcome of elections, there are so many of them that the problems that California has to deal with become important enough that politicians won't ignore them. If you make the situation work the other way around, then Wyoming's problems become even less important than they are right now and you can pretty much just ignore them and campaign in a certain county instead. If you don't handle people's problems then that makes them more likely to move, to seek a better future elsewhere.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#730
It's quite likely that without the electoral college, Donald Trump would have won the popular vote. Republican turnout in NY is terrible for presidential elections, because they all know there vote won't matter. Registered Democrats out number Republicans in NY by more than 2 to 1, and yet there are more Republicans in NY that there are people in New Mexico and Vermont combined.

It's definitely not a given, but predicting what would happen is not a clear exercise. You can't change the rules without changing peoples behavior.

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