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Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

jeff-vogel.blogspot.com

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Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#41

Post by haversine02 »

glenvdb wrote: post #12

I think the problem is that the game is in Uncanny Valley. It's trying to achieve a certain level of detail/realism, but it's falling short of expectations. This might be completely intentional, to evoke a feel for games from an era that did the same thing, but comparing to Baba is You highlights the developer doesn't understand that. Baba is You has gone completely in the opposite direction in terms of graphical det…

The art doesn't even need more detail or realism, it just needs consistent detail. Even just a simple palettization/pixelation preprocessing for every sprite could be enough - https://i.imgur.com/oPH7paD.jpg

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#42

Post by tempguy9999 »

What is looking good? To me it's that the hues and colours don't hide relevant features of the game, or hurt my eyes.

I've played on-line games that have camera shake when you make a hit, bits spray everywhere, shadows cast where they conceal relevant stuff, none of this helps me enjoy it, it just gets in the way of what I need to see. It gets turned off ASAP.

In other cases I'd rather have the characters not act like dicks (stand around when there's a fight starting, get attacked by monsters and not defend themselves). The gameplay is so frustrating sometimes. (edit: point is graphics are low on my list of bothersome)

Art is going mad, like the floppy hair that nvidia GPUs are boasting about - who cares, really?

(Did play a demo of Vogel's game and liked it, the only problem being that I didn't pick up any threatening atmosphere in areas where there should have been. Still, recommended and good fun)

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#43

Post by jplayer01 »

gtirloni wrote: post #17
TeMPOraL wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he doesn't understand why people say the games look bad (and people may have trouble articulating the real reasons too); I believe 'meheleventyone captured the root issue elsewhere[0] - the game he presented has inconsistent, crappy style. Which can be contrasted to other simple games he uses as a justification - these games look well because they have a particular style. The solution isn't to go 3D, or add m…

He explains why he doesn't want to get a single permanent artist in the article. A few times.

... it's like nobody's reading the article. And it's a good article.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#44

Post by chrisseaton »

m0nty wrote: post #10

ITT: lots of people missing the point that he doesn't actually believe his games look like crap, he's just made a conscious (and profitable) decision to go retro. He likes his games' visual style and values the freelancers who produce the art. I didn't think this is a difficult point but apparently it is.

> lots of people missing the point ... he's just made a conscious (and profitable) decision to go retro

And in turn I think you're missing the point somewhat - people's point is that retro doesn't have to mean inconsistent art style and bad colours. There are lots of examples of beautiful retro games.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#45

Post by jplayer01 »

meheleventyone wrote: post #9

Arrrgh, there are a lot of interesting and good points in the article but for the most part they miss the wood for the trees. The actual answer is that care isn't being taken to develop a style that looks good and meets his constraints. Jeff needs a good art director. The Ultima V and Baba is You examples are excellent counter-points because they show how great games with simple styles can look.

> Jeff needs a good art director.

Did you miss the part where adding an employee would double his required budget for the game? Which means he needs at least double the sales? Which means more risk? And there's no guarantee he'll hit that even if the graphics look better?

He spells out that he's working with freelancers, who often flake out for (understandable) various reasons.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#46

Post by rwmj »

meheleventyone wrote: post #9

Arrrgh, there are a lot of interesting and good points in the article but for the most part they miss the wood for the trees. The actual answer is that care isn't being taken to develop a style that looks good and meets his constraints. Jeff needs a good art director. The Ultima V and Baba is You examples are excellent counter-points because they show how great games with simple styles can look.

> Jeff needs a good art director.

He does address this in the article: Hiring more people means he directly needs to make more sales, which (I also know from experience) is very difficult to do. Hiring dead weight like an "art director" probably means hiring even more people to carry out the directions of the art director, since they're unlikely to be a can-do person themselves.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#48

Post by jplayer01 »

meheleventyone wrote: post #26
Beltiras wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He actually addresses why he won't solve any of the "problems" with more manpower. He's found local maxima and is willing to stay there because there are risks associated with moving.

But it's not a question of adding more manpower. When I say Jeff needs an art director I mean that Jeff needs to care about art direction and that making a good looking game with his existing constraints is perfectly feasible.

> When I say Jeff needs an art director I mean that Jeff needs to care about art direction and that making a good looking game with his existing constraints is perfectly feasible.

Then say that instead of "Jeff needs an art director", which literally means that Jeff needs an art director. Which means another employee. It doesn't mean "Jeff needs to be an art director". Which he is, but results in the current situation where his games have the art they have, people complain, he writes an article explaining, and people like you criticize him for reasonable justification for why things are the way things are.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#49

Post by JelteF »

cousin_it wrote: post #35

Jeff, the art problems of your games have nothing to do with low-res. Baba is You (or Downwell) are just as low-res, but manage to look good because they use fewer colors and choose them well. I recommend learning that skill, it will make your games look way better and it honestly doesn't take that much time.

Completely agree that it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they are low res. However, it's not just the colors. For me it's mostly that the lighting across artwork is very inconsistent. The artwork separately is quite good, but because some stuff is much lighter than the rest it feels like it's gathered from multiple separate games and put together in one.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#50

Post by atoav »

meheleventyone wrote: post #9

Arrrgh, there are a lot of interesting and good points in the article but for the most part they miss the wood for the trees. The actual answer is that care isn't being taken to develop a style that looks good and meets his constraints. Jeff needs a good art director. The Ultima V and Baba is You examples are excellent counter-points because they show how great games with simple styles can look.

Additionally it helps to have a unique, well thought out and recognizable style in a game when you want to convince your audience that you are making good games and you are not some guy who tried out a game editor for the first thime with that generic texture pack he found on the internet.

People are very visual and your game can be amazing in terms of story or programming, but you also need to sell them visually. That doesn't mean every game has to go for amazing graphics, but it must make sense and look interesting. E.g. nethack looks more interesting without generic sprite package, till somebody developes one with a consistent style.

It takes years to get good at this, unless you did it since you were born. You pay good artists exactly for these years.

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