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Apple's petition against RED

digitalcameraworld.com

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Re: Apple's petition against RED

#61
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of those videos has his own history of being sued/suing RED.

But did you watch the video (hence his arguments) to make up your mind? Maybe the fact that he's reporting about the patent is linked to his own history with RED

at 34m18s you can see how author of video conveniently misses the date of first preliminary application to fit his narrative

Re: Apple's petition against RED

#63
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of those videos has his own history of being sued/suing RED.

But did you watch the video (hence his arguments) to make up your mind? Maybe the fact that he's reporting about the patent is linked to his own history with RED

Yes, I've watched several of his videos.

This is a controversial topic that has been the subject of a lot of discussion lately with people who work in the industry, owners of RED cameras, and other significant stakeholders.

Re: Apple's petition against RED

#64

>>...didn't make a technological break-through - they simply combined two patents, just as any skilled artisan would have done. That's also valid for most patents from Apple including the iphone

"The iPhone" isn't a patent.

There's one often-ridiculed "design patent" on the rounded-rectangle-in-a-grid home screen layout. But these "design patents" are a lot closer to copyright than actual patents.

The mere existence of Android phones are proof that at least one of the following two believes or yours must be wrong:

- That trivial stuff is easily patented

- That Apple is willing to abuse the patent system for anti-competitive reasons.

Re: Apple's petition against RED

#65
Also to note, this is probably the same reason why Blackmagic dropped CinemaDNG [1][2](Adobe's raw video format) and made their own version - Blackmagic Raw [3]

[1]https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87045 [2]https://www.reddit.com/r/cinematography/comments/ay3sm4/wtf_... [3]https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicraw

Re: Apple's petition against RED

#66
post #65

Also to note, this is probably the same reason why Blackmagic dropped CinemaDNG [1][2](Adobe's raw video format) and made their own version - Blackmagic Raw [3] [1] https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87045 [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/cinematography/comments/ay3sm4/wtf_... [3] https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicraw

Although BRAW isn't really equivalent to CinemaDNG - the former is lossy and the latter isn't.

Re: Apple's petition against RED

#67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should define what lossy means for you because your statement is incorrect for me. Shooting Raw with an ARRI Alexa is lossless, this is not the case when you shoot R3D (Raw for RED). R3D is using JPEG2000 compression and will effectively destroy the data the sensor captured to some degree. This can have dramatic consequences when doing green screen keying and/or shooting in low light.

Is the part you're disagreeing with "there's generally not much advantage over a good lossy codec"? There are definitely times it's not true, but I think I covered myself with "generally". Most footage is shot with adequate exposure and doesn't require keying etc.

I'm disagreeing with the "Virtually all video capture is lossy" which is simply not true. ARRI cameras and especially the Alexa are some of the most used cameras in the movie industry and the Alexa Raw format is lossless.

Re: Apple's petition against RED

#68
post #25

IANAL but if we allow software patents that should be valid. It may not take a genius to do what they did (Apple's point) but: - There are the first to do it. - They are using it commercially in their own products, they are not just trolls. - They didn't just patent an idea. They built a whole system around it. REDCODE is not just a compression algorithm. It is a compression algorithm optimized for a certain type of…

> REDCODE is not just a compression algorithm. It is a compression algorithm optimized for a certain type of professional movie camera, one that they invented Ah, no. redcode is jpeg2000 in a tar file, with some metadata goop. They didn't invent it, they spent a lot of time trying to obfuscate it, and were very put out when the VFX industry reverse engineered it. Whats worse, for a good few years the tools they made…

I'm sorry but I don't understand, you seem to be saying that RED produce bad cameras, encode their files in a trivial way and then provide crap post-processing tools. They weren't even first to market.

So why does anyone use them?

Re: Apple's petition against RED

#69
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the part you're disagreeing with "there's generally not much advantage over a good lossy codec"? There are definitely times it's not true, but I think I covered myself with "generally". Most footage is shot with adequate exposure and doesn't require keying etc.

I'm disagreeing with the "Virtually all video capture is lossy" which is simply not true. ARRI cameras and especially the Alexa are some of the most used cameras in the movie industry and the Alexa Raw format is lossless.

Those cameras also record ProRes though, which I would expect to be used far more commonly. At least outside of $100m+ movies where money is no object.

Edit: I had a look at https://www.indiewire.com/2018/05/cannes-2018-camera-cinemat... and annoyingly I have to admit that ARRIRAW looks to be much more popular I expected among smaller features. Like 10/32 specifically mention it, and some of the others are ambiguous.

Re: Apple's petition against RED

#70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> REDCODE is not just a compression algorithm. It is a compression algorithm optimized for a certain type of professional movie camera, one that they invented Ah, no. redcode is jpeg2000 in a tar file, with some metadata goop. They didn't invent it, they spent a lot of time trying to obfuscate it, and were very put out when the VFX industry reverse engineered it. Whats worse, for a good few years the tools they made…

I'm sorry but I don't understand, you seem to be saying that RED produce bad cameras, encode their files in a trivial way and then provide crap post-processing tools. They weren't even first to market. So why does anyone use them?

You seem to be expecting consumers to make completely logical decisions on these matters. Past a certain saturation threshold, name recognition alone can be enough to tip the scales of consumer preference.

That's exactly why people still buy Apple hardware at all anymore - their friends/peers already have them. It's surely not due to superiority by any metric for the price point.

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