Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap • Hacker News Board

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#21

Post by Beltiras » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:49 AM UTC

meheleventyone wrote: post #9

Arrrgh, there are a lot of interesting and good points in the article but for the most part they miss the wood for the trees. The actual answer is that care isn't being taken to develop a style that looks good and meets his constraints. Jeff needs a good art director. The Ultima V and Baba is You examples are excellent counter-points because they show how great games with simple styles can look.

He actually addresses why he won't solve any of the "problems" with more manpower. He's found local maxima and is willing to stay there because there are risks associated with moving.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#22

Post by chii » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:50 AM UTC

m0nty wrote: post #10

ITT: lots of people missing the point that he doesn't actually believe his games look like crap, he's just made a conscious (and profitable) decision to go retro. He likes his games' visual style and values the freelancers who produce the art. I didn't think this is a difficult point but apparently it is.

this tells me that AAA studios could do really well to produce "indie games" with AAA-quality graphics. Gamers _want_ the originality and interesting indie games, but they don't want or don't care for low-quality aesthetics in their graphics (even when the graphics doesn't matter).

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#23

Post by Beltiras » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:51 AM UTC

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #4

There's a difference between a conscious choice to maintain a certain style or level of detail, and a lack of willingness to improve said style. The whole article reads to me less like "I don't want to upgrade to 3D or higher detail" and more like "I'm too comfortable to want to improve the current art by putting in 10% more detail". Disclaimer: I'm not a business owner and don't work in the games industry. My opinio…

Lesson 3 is not about blaming anyone but acknowledging the nature of the relationships in the space.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#24

Post by glenvdb » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:51 AM UTC

gtirloni wrote: post #15

glenvdb wrote: post #12

I think the problem is that the game is in Uncanny Valley. It's trying to achieve a certain level of detail/realism, but it's falling short of expectations. This might be completely intentional, to evoke a feel for games from an era that did the same thing, but comparing to Baba is You highlights the developer doesn't understand that. Baba is You has gone completely in the opposite direction in terms of graphical det…

The article explains in detail where he wants the game to sit and why. Sorry, I don't follow.

If the dev truly understood where he wants the game to sit and why he wouldn't have compared it to Baba is You.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#25

Post by barryhoodlum » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:52 AM UTC

gtirloni wrote: post #15

glenvdb wrote: post #12

I think the problem is that the game is in Uncanny Valley. It's trying to achieve a certain level of detail/realism, but it's falling short of expectations. This might be completely intentional, to evoke a feel for games from an era that did the same thing, but comparing to Baba is You highlights the developer doesn't understand that. Baba is You has gone completely in the opposite direction in terms of graphical det…

The article explains in detail where he wants the game to sit and why. Sorry, I don't follow.

But his games don't sit where he thinks they sit. It's baffling as there's a huge market for "retro" looking indie games, and has been for a decade or so. Plenty of successful and influential indie games made by a small team (or even a solo developer) in the past decade have been really successful despite looking like they could run on an NES or a Commodore 64, with limited palettes and chunky graphics. But there's a difference between that and what appears to be placeholder programmer art.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#26

Post by meheleventyone » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:52 AM UTC

Beltiras wrote: post #21

meheleventyone wrote: post #9

Arrrgh, there are a lot of interesting and good points in the article but for the most part they miss the wood for the trees. The actual answer is that care isn't being taken to develop a style that looks good and meets his constraints. Jeff needs a good art director. The Ultima V and Baba is You examples are excellent counter-points because they show how great games with simple styles can look.

He actually addresses why he won't solve any of the "problems" with more manpower. He's found local maxima and is willing to stay there because there are risks associated with moving.

But it's not a question of adding more manpower. When I say Jeff needs an art director I mean that Jeff needs to care about art direction and that making a good looking game with his existing constraints is perfectly feasible.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#27

Post by acd » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

Simple graphics open up for imagination as juskrey post here said. That couple with a great story can be good enough. A good book does not need to contain picture we imagine the content, a RPG can be the same. That said better looking graphics could be sourced from Chinese graphic artist, there is an industry which makes better game graphics quite cheaply.

For example https://retrostylegames.com/about-game-art/

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#28

Post by baud147258 » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:56 AM UTC

m0nty wrote: post #10

ITT: lots of people missing the point that he doesn't actually believe his games look like crap, he's just made a conscious (and profitable) decision to go retro. He likes his games' visual style and values the freelancers who produce the art. I didn't think this is a difficult point but apparently it is.

The issue is that the art direction of this game is way inferior to his previous games, which were made with more limitations (and even more limited budgets, since they weren't Kickstartered).

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#29

Post by mlvljr » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

gtirloni wrote: post #15

glenvdb wrote: post #12

I think the problem is that the game is in Uncanny Valley. It's trying to achieve a certain level of detail/realism, but it's falling short of expectations. This might be completely intentional, to evoke a feel for games from an era that did the same thing, but comparing to Baba is You highlights the developer doesn't understand that. Baba is You has gone completely in the opposite direction in terms of graphical det…

The article explains in detail where he wants the game to sit and why. Sorry, I don't follow.

Oh, you passive aggressive silver tongue devil!

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#30

Post by ehnto » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 10:01 AM UTC

I have been really enjoying the way games are being stylized nowadays. We reached a level of fidelity that is really expensive to maintain I think, and so game studios are leaning in on really solid art direction instead. It makes for much more interesting worlds and longer lasting art.

For example, LA Noire looks dated (though still excellent in many ways), while Borderlands looks as good as when it was released.

LA Noire while it feels a bit dated, the characters don't really hit uncanny valley thanks to the facial motion capture technology. I am still aware they are a video game character, just a very emotive one.

It makes me think there is a peak realism we should chase, after which improved graphics wouldn't really add much. I wonder if maybe we aren't already there.

Many games suffer from high detail but lack of clarity. We are still working with a 2D screen with limited dynamic range after all. So that means when there is higher detail it can get overly busy. Lacking contrast, making it hard to decipher what you are looking at quickly, especially if it is moving. Stylized games can add visual contrast in their lighting and art, improving clarity overall. Having said that, I think games could leanr some tricks from cinema in this regard. Just capturing what is real doesn't make good cinema, you have to engineer the scene and the shot.